Rakes in or out of the bunker

[Julian Wise]

Everyone seems to have a view on whether to leave the rakes in or out of the bunker, yet there does not seem to be a definitive answer, and there seem to be pros and cons to both options.  Certainly one of the main things to consider is where (in or out of bunker) is the least likely chance of interference and also, if there is interference, where would it have the least impact on the player's resulting shot?  From what I have seen, the tour events leave the rakes inside the bunkers--you would think that they would know best.  Thoughts?

[Scott McWethy]

From what I recall, the rakes were left out of the bunkers at The Masters.  I think they should be left outside of the bunker, otherwise if a ball goes into the trap and stops up against a rake, then I think it goes against the way the ball would naturally come to rest in the trap.  I know it's a hazard but I don't think a lie in a bunker should be influenced by where a rake sits.  A rake should be left outside a bunker in a spot where it is not in the direct line of play for the hole.  You can't always keep a ball from hitting a rake, but there are spots around any bunker where a rake can be placed that will keep that type of incident to a minimum.   

[Keith OHalloran]

I like rakes in the bunker, so the maintenance crew does not waste time moving them while they work.

[Pete_Pittock]

Everyone seems to have a view on whether to leave the rakes in or out of the bunker, yet there does not seem to be a definitive answer, and there seem to be pros and cons to both options.  Certainly one of the main things to consider is where (in or out of bunker) is the least likely chance of interference and also, if there is interference, where would it have the least impact on the player's resulting shot?  From what I have seen, the tour events leave the rakes inside the bunkers--you would think that they would know best.  Thoughts?

That is why the R&A and USGA suggest they be placed outside the bunker. But they only look at it from a rules perspective. Have you ever been jobbed by an unthoughtful placement of a rake? Where you must take stroke and distance for an unplayable ball resting against a rake where there is no relief possible in the bunker.   

[Cliff Hamm]

 Course in Florida is cart path only until late afternoon. All rakes are left in the cart saving maintenance costs both while cutting the grass and raking bunkers

[Anthony_Nysse]

Out.

[Jerry Kluger]

I have always felt that rakes should be outside bunkers however, I am getting frustrated with where the rakes are being left by the maintenance crew and golfers at my club.  It is happening far too often that the rakes are left at the top of the bunkers which can affect a shot and can be an annoying distraction even when the hole location is far beyond the top of the bunker.  In addition, players leaving the rakes at the top of the bunkers are usually climbing out the top of the bunker which pushes the sand down to the lower portion and leaving less sand near the top of the bunker.

[Sean_A]

In with handle leaning on lip.  I would not want to see a rake stop a ball from entering a hazard or deflecting a ball into a hazard. To me this is far important than what happens if a ball is already in the hazard. Besides, rakes outside of sand looks very untidy.


Ciao

[MClutterbuck]

I like rakes in the bunker, so the maintenance crew does not waste time moving them while they work.

Maintenance crew at my course request rakes out of the bunkers for maintenance. Bunkers are worked on daily, fairways, roughs are not cut daily...

[Jon Wiggett]

If you have rakes then I prefer in the bunker but really why have rakes at all?

[Thomas Dai]

If you have rakes then I prefer in the bunker but really why have rakes at all?

+1


Atb

[Colin Shellard]

This is a question that I have always thought there should be a definitive answer on - but as this thread shows there is no consensus. For me the best solution that I have seen was where a course (I think it was Ganton) had metal spiked rake rests placed just outside the lip of the bunker where you placed the head of the rake and the top of the handle sat on the ground. This seems to offer the best compromise, minimal interference for any ball entering the bunker, but nothing to stop your ball in the bunker coming to a natural resting position.


Needless to say none of the clubs I play regularly have these so I tend to put the rake back in the bunker, but make sure the head is far enough in so it doesn't leave someone with a downhill lie in the side / back of the bunker should the ball come to rest against it.

[Terry Thornton]

For me the best solution that I have seen was where a course (I think it was Ganton) had metal spiked rake rests placed just outside the lip of the bunker where you placed the head of the rake and the top of the handle sat on the ground. This seems to offer the best compromise, minimal interference for any ball entering the bunker, but nothing to stop your ball in the bunker coming to a natural resting position.

It is Ganton Colin. I agree this is the best setup I've seen, surprisingly unobtrusive.
For rakes in bunkers, Royal Lytham places a large round plastic disc around the handle about a foot from the tip. This keeps most of the handle well above the level of the sand thereby allowing a ball to run under it.

[Ian Mackenzie]

We use a "hybrid" placement.


Head of rake rests in the bunker and the shaft lies perpindicular to the bunker edge so that the butt of the rake is off the ground slightly.


Balls that are hit towards the bunkers are very rarely impacted outside of the bunker as the the shaft is elevated.
If a ball hits the head of the rake in the bunker, then it is almost always (99%+) easy to remove the rake and one is left with a standard bunker shot with ample room from the bunker's edge.

[PCCraig]

We use a "hybrid" placement.


Head of rake rests in the bunker and the shaft lies perpindicular to the bunker edge so that the butt of the rake is off the ground slightly.


Balls that are hit towards the bunkers are very rarely impacted outside of the bunker as the the shaft is elevated.
If a ball hits the head of the rake in the bunker, then it is almost always (99%+) easy to remove the rake and one is left with a standard bunker shot with ample room from the bunker's edge.

I like this...did you come up with this yourselves or was it inspired by another club?

[Ian Mackenzie]

We use a "hybrid" placement.


Head of rake rests in the bunker and the shaft lies perpindicular to the bunker edge so that the butt of the rake is off the ground slightly.


Balls that are hit towards the bunkers are very rarely impacted outside of the bunker as the the shaft is elevated.
If a ball hits the head of the rake in the bunker, then it is almost always (99%+) easy to remove the rake and one is left with a standard bunker shot with ample room from the bunker's edge.

I like this...did you come up with this yourselves or was it inspired by another club?

Hi, Pat - I believe Jim Urbina may have suggested it to us.

[David Sucher]

Maybe this suggestion raised & dismissed long ago, but why any raking at all?
Or maybe raked once per week by staff?
I think Harvey Penick writes about letting bunkers evolve and strikes me as worth considering. No?
I'm not much of a golfer (i.e. very high handicap) and yet I don't find most bunkers to be that big a deal as they are usually so smooth, even.
So one way to solve problem of where to leave the rake is to leave it in maintenance shed.

[Scott McWethy]

We use a "hybrid" placement.


Head of rake rests in the bunker and the shaft lies perpindicular to the bunker edge so that the butt of the rake is off the ground slightly.


Balls that are hit towards the bunkers are very rarely impacted outside of the bunker as the the shaft is elevated.
If a ball hits the head of the rake in the bunker, then it is almost always (99%+) easy to remove the rake and one is left with a standard bunker shot with ample room from the bunker's edge.

Ian, that's the best compromise.  I think it is the least obtrusive way to handle the rake situation.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Maybe this suggestion raised & dismissed long ago, but why any raking at all?
Or maybe raked once per week by staff?
I think Harvey Penick writes about letting bunkers evolve and strikes me as worth considering. No?
I'm not much of a golfer (i.e. very high handicap) and yet I don't find most bunkers to be that big a deal as they are usually so smooth, even.
So one way to solve problem of where to leave the rake is to leave it in maintenance shed.

I would imagine that there is nothing stopping YOU from doing that where YOU play....
If natural bunkers fits in with your course style and culture, then it indeed would make sense.


Good luck with it. Please let us know how other players and/or members receive the news....

[David Sucher]

Ian Mackenzie.
Not raking is a not good thing  unless custom of the course. Can NOT be a unilateral personal choice not to rake but only part of local rules. That's my view and would never cross my mind to not rake unless everyone doing it. (or not doing it)
So not sure if your suggestion very sporting.

Or were you being sarcastic?

[Dave McCollum]

What a bunch of nerds.  My maintenance guys say in, so that they don't have to get their lazy asses off the mowers to move them.   

[Craig Disher]

In the bunker at its lowest level and parallel to the line of play. Or - with the handle resting in a buried vertical pvc pipe located at the lowest entry point to the bunker.

[Sean_A]

We use a "hybrid" placement.


Head of rake rests in the bunker and the shaft lies perpindicular to the bunker edge so that the butt of the rake is off the ground slightly.


Balls that are hit towards the bunkers are very rarely impacted outside of the bunker as the the shaft is elevated.
If a ball hits the head of the rake in the bunker, then it is almost always (99%+) easy to remove the rake and one is left with a standard bunker shot with ample room from the bunker's edge.

I always place the rake perpindicular to the lip with the handle raised on the outside of the bunker and head near the centre of the sand.  I figure if the head of the rake catches a ball its in the middle of the sand rather than near the edge. Plus, people can easily access the rake (which is quite important given the age of golfers  ). 


I can see no sense in rakes outside bunkers as they have the highest chance of effecting play....and it looks very untidy.  I have seen rakes stuck in holders so they stand straight up in front of bunkers.  This is probably the best method in terms of not effecting play, but jeepers is it ugly...not something I would support given the efforts made to make courses look attractive.


Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

The resort in Couer D' Alene ID, the one with the floating green, installed "in ground" rake holders so you never even see or interact with them.  While this may be the "best" option, I'm not sure if its the most practical.

[Pete_Pittock]

If it is a golf course open to the public, we are just arguing about a starting position. It is likely to be discarded willy-nilly.