Shot Clock in Professional Golf

[Kalen Braley]

Once again, while I like the concept, way too many questions\ variables:

-- Slow play in front of you
--  Lost balls, in the hazard, OB scenarios
-- Waiting for you or your opponent to get a rules decision
-- Weather considerations.
--  Where to put the shot clocks so both players and fan can see them, for every player on every hole.
--  When exactly to start the timer?  When they get to their ball?  After their opponent hits?  When their opponents ball is in the air.
--  What to do if fans are being noisy and taking snaps?
--  etc, etc.

I'm just having a hard time seeing doing these things on the course.  I think they just need to enforce what they have with one small tweak.  First clock violation, a warning.... every subsequent violation, 1 shot penalty instead of fines which is what I think they do now....if a ref has the ballz to take it that far.

[Jay Mickle]

Fines for ref not imposing penalties

[Jason Topp]

Once again, while I like the concept, way too many questions\ variables:

-- Slow play in front of you
--  Lost balls, in the hazard, OB scenarios
-- Waiting for you or your opponent to get a rules decision
-- Weather considerations.
--  Where to put the shot clocks so both players and fan can see them, for every player on every hole.
--  When exactly to start the timer?  When they get to their ball?  After their opponent hits?  When their opponents ball is in the air.
--  What to do if fans are being noisy and taking snaps?
--  etc, etc.

I'm just having a hard time seeing doing these things on the course.  I think they just need to enforce what they have with one small tweak.  First clock violation, a warning.... every subsequent violation, 1 shot penalty instead of fines which is what I think they do now....if a ref has the ballz to take it that far.

Kalen - refs do have the authority to penalize (at least at the Masters) but it is rare.  They also deal with the contingencies you list in determining whether a player gets a bad time so I do not think those things are insurmountable.  I would start the clock whenever they do so now which I believe is when the way is clear and it is the player's turn to hit.  There certainly is the potential for controversy but I do not hear much complaint on that front.  Instead the controversy seems to arise from the decision to put the player on the clock in the first place which I believe has to do with the group being out of position, behind on time and incurs a "bad time."

The downside of the current system is that a player can be put on the clock when his partners are slow and he faces one of the strange situations you list.  Under my system, the player alone would control the potential for a penalty and would get more leeway for a difficult situation if he plays more quickly. 

[Josh Tarble]

I like the idea.  The player gets 30 seconds per shot, it starts 15 seconds after the previous ball stops moving.  Effectively more than a minute in between shots for those using their time correctly. 

Each penalty or drop and you get 1 minute.  Anything over that and the rules official gets fined as well.  No reason some of these simple drops, such as drains and cart paths need to take more than the time to bend over, pick up a ball, then drop it.

I also like the idea of giving each player a certain amount of timeouts, maybe offering more timeouts at majors and/or final rounds.

[JJShanley]

Wouldn't be interesting at least if the network covering the event created the shot clock, superimposing it on the upper right hand corner of the screen? That way the slowpokes peers and the public would have visible evidence of the pace of play issues.

I worry this would have a counter-effect, giving folks at home the idea that it's OK to take this long.


What really has to happen, more than a shot clock or anything else, is that the talking heads on TV need to be less accepting of it. Hell, half the time right now they praise it. I don't know who the guys doing feature group coverage for the Masters Thursday and Friday were but they were awful in many ways--perhaps the worst of which was that overtime someone backed off they thought it was a great move and even encouraged folks at home to take more time. I about lost my mind.


In a vacuum, I don't have a huge problem if pros take a long time to play. I find it really hard to criticize a guy who has millions of dollars on the line for backing off when someone in the gallery sneezes. But the trouble of course is that it's not a vacuum and too many people on a Sunday morning at home act like they have as much right to take their time as the pros do. That's on commentators. Faldo tweaked Spieth about his slowness a few times, but gently at best and Nantz always stepped in to defend him. We need guys in the booth who, at the absolute minimum, can say, "You know, he's taking a long time considering this shot and it's hard to blame him with the Masters on the line. But I hope everyone watching at home knows that if they took this long to play, they'd deserve to be thrown off the course." Just any little bit would help. Or, as I say, even just to eliminate the real idiots who not only praise it but encourage the weekend duffers to act like that, too.

That's the Bob Rotella factor.  I take back what I said about the USGA doing 2 things to speed up the game. There is a third:  pay off Bob Rotella to write a book retracting every word of pre-shot routine crap he has ever written, and then take him out behind the USGA headquarters and beat him to death with Hogan's 1 iron

In fairness, I've played quicker since I read Rotella.

[V. Kmetz]

Another benefit from getting rid of the caddie/coach is that most players would use trollies. As we all love to emulate the pros, we would then use trollies. More people walk, people live healthier happier lives. It's so simple.

You're really not concentrating enough...see caddie/see shank





shank you
vk

[Jim_Kennedy]

If anyone needs a shot-clock of sorts it's the broadcasters. CBS did a slightly better job than the norm by cutting away from slower players to show action on other parts of the course, then returning when the poke was finally ready to play.
Everyone knows who the dawdlers are. If TV was proactive, and never stayed on any player who was dithering around during his/her routine, it would create the illusion that all the players were moving around the course at a good pace. 
The viewers at home would 'see' more action and quicker play, which is an immediate positive, and that combined with better enforcement of the existing rules pertaining to slow play would eventually get the times down on Tour. It wouldn't even change the time slotted for viewing, events could still end when scheduled just by moving the starting times for all players ahead.

Jim, the problem with that is that every junior golfer worth a crap will find a way to go to a tour event and copy what they see live- further reinforcing the stone cold FACT that good players are the worst slow play offenders... This would just make it worse and I didn't think that was possible.  Other than that, great idea!

For 2015:
Final round TV viewership, in millions  -  Masters     US Open     Open     PGA    US Open (Women)    LPGA Championship
                                                                          14.2              6.7              6.7        3.4              1.0                                  .7
That's 32.7 million people who wouldn't be seeing slow play, which is quite a large number when you consider that there may be a few tens of thousands on the scene.   

Couple the TV 'shot-clock' with enforcement of the existing rules and it's not an unworkable idea. Plus, it's better than what we have now.   
 

[Jason Topp]

In the game of golf one player in a four ball on the 15th green can effectively slow down place of play to a crawl for those standing on the 1st tee, and all those in between.  All it takes is one person.


This is as true for a professional as it is for a weekend warrior.

Not sure if this comment is pro or con.  I think my proposal would be pretty effective at preventing this scenario.

[Jon Wiggett]

Under the 30 second shot rule Ernie Els would have had time to build a scaffold and hang himself without penalty prior to reaching the tee at Pink Dogwood.

 

[JReese]

Slow play must not be too big of an issue since only 1 player in Masters history has been slapped with a penalty.  Talk about a cringe-worthy moment. 

[Declan Kavanagh]

The problem is not caddies, it is the narcissistic PGA Tour players who ask their caddie 50 questions for every shot.  Could you imagine playing a 5+ hour two-ball?  I would quit the game. 

[Niall C]

Declan


Just because the tour pro asks the questions doesn't mean the caddy isn't the problem, after all if there was no caddy then there would be no one to ask the questions to.


Niall

[Matthew Petersen]

I do like the idea overall. It's incredibly tough to implement, but I would love to see it at least be tried. The primary benefit, even if it never becomes a regular of official thing, could be to just encourage the players to do more of their decision-making before it's their turn. Jason Day's eyes closed shot picturing thing is annoying, but it's be a lot less annoying if that was all he was doing after others in his group hit. Instead he stands there and waits until it his turn and only then pulls a club, thinks about wind, etc ... all before even getting to that agonizing routine.

[Kalen Braley]

I do like the idea overall. It's incredibly tough to implement, but I would love to see it at least be tried. The primary benefit, even if it never becomes a regular of official thing, could be to just encourage the players to do more of their decision-making before it's their turn. Jason Day's eyes closed shot picturing thing is annoying, but it's be a lot less annoying if that was all he was doing after others in his group hit. Instead he stands there and waits until it his turn and only then pulls a club, thinks about wind, etc ... all before even getting to that agonizing routine.

Matt,

Could you imagine a classic venue like ANGC being littered with giant Red boxes like this....I just can't see it!

Cause remember, the player and fans would have to be able to see it at all times when he's over the ball.  So they'd have to be big and they'd have to be plentiful. 

[Tom Allen]

From the comments here, it seems that there is a rule in place that the clock starts once you reach your ball, and it is open ahead of you.  I think that is a fair starting point.  To me, you should have 30 seconds max from that point on to hit it.  You exceed that, you get a stroke added.  I understand delays from looking for balls, a re-tee, a drop, etc.; that's part of the game.

It is the time wasted once they get to their ball that kills me; that is not part of the game.  Backing away--repeatedly--drove me crazy watching the Masters.

[Jason Topp]

Kalen - I am sure the numbers would be green!

[MCirba]

I posted this on another thread, as well, but thought it might be worth considering what the very efficient and no-nonsense Donald Ross thought about proper pace-of-play. 

[Kalen Braley]

Jason,

Of course, my bad.  Lime-chile green sponsored by the corresponding dish at the local Augusta Hooters!! 

Mike,

Interesting article.  I think the solution is, let the players police themsevles as implied in the last paragraph.  That would be awesome to see Tour Pros playing into each other in an actual tournie!!

[Jason Topp]

Thanks Mike.  I wonder how much longer the walk is today to get around a modern course compared to Pinehurst when Ross created that chart. 

I suspect players walk at least an extra mile or two although they might not walk much if any additional distance at Pinehurst. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Screw it...we should all just play like this: https://www.facebook.com/TheEuropeanTour/videos/10153454654380969/?fref=nf

[Dave McCollum]

All of these pace-of-play threads makes me think of speed golf comps where guys shoot around par and play 18 in less than an hour.  Just for a lark on a Monday, two of our club pros and mid cap cart kid tried to play 9 holes in under 30 minutes.  They each had a cart, played 6500 tees, and putts were holed out.  No problem, they had time to spare and the scores were respectable.  The point is where there is a will, there is a way.

[Steve Lang]

   you know... every group has a walking scorer connected by radio and "blackberry or equivalent hand held device" for inputting scoring and other data that ends up on shot link... and the kid or adult carrying a placard with player score relative to par...  imagine that placard with times too!

[Dave McCollum]

Good point Steve.  I read it takes hundreds of volunteers to run Shotlink.  Adding shot timing to each shot can't be much of a burden. 

[Steve Lang]

   been there done that, it'd be a tap on the pad, for arriving & shot

[Kalen Braley]

Good point Steve.  I read it takes hundreds of volunteers to run Shotlink.  Adding shot timing to each shot can't be much of a burden.

Except for training hundreds of volunteers to start the clock at exactly the same time as compared to a NFL or NBA game where you only have to train one person...

And I'm sure volunteers will be qualified to do such...without controversy..