WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?

[Sean_A]

Augusta may be the single best example of a classic course being altered to suit a major, but without ripping out the character of the course.  Its not as if loads of water has been added.  Its not as if loads of sand has been added.  Some 600+ yards have been added, but the course doesn't play terribly long and Augusta was always longish compared to other major venues.  The biggest character change is with tree planting, but this has been done in specific areas and overall the course remains incredibly wide for a championship venue. 

Many people lament the watering down of the design and to some degree I agree..when I look at the design from 10 handicap perspective.  However, it strikes me that Augusta may be the only course on the planet which has a seriously high pro play rate to member/guest play rate. I was thinking it might be as high as 50/50 or even more!  I always say that courses shouldn't be altered for the small amount of time pros turn up to play, but in the case of Augusta the pros do turn up to play and with the course closed a significant percentage of the year.....  The pros play a significant percentage of rounds at Augusta in preperation and in playing The Masters.  So, which master should the members serve...themselves or The Masters?  I think the club has probably done about as good a job as can be hoped given that clubs which host majors ALWAYS change their courses. 

What say you folks? 

Does anybody know the numbers for pro V member play at Augusta?

Ciao

[Rick Emerson]

Please, let an ANGC member get on here and elaborate on this? I want this for no other reason than to see people drop hints in an attempt to play the same golf course people usually rip to shreds around here. 
I also want to know if the rumor is true that anyone who asks a member to play is automatically to be told no.

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
Other than Masters week, it's members and their guests.Oct-May
There are only members tees and back tees-with a vast difference in between.
I know many of their senior members (the majority) struggle as their drives crash into upslopes or don't reach the downslopes so important to play well at ANGC.
Given that winter is their season, the damp cold weather and winter conditions of Augusta would make the back tees prohibitively long for low handicappers and club pros (or even Tour pros). The firm fast (and usually warm)conditions we see during April are not the norm in December, January, or February.
So the scratch player has to choose between 6300 yards or 7500-a choice many low handicappers are used to making.
I think these are referred to as high class problems.


As you say it's a purpose driven course (The Masters)so altering the course for pros makes perfect sense.
Given the ineptitude of the governing bodies, the added distance at ANGC makes sense and other than #7 has properly restored the "shot" values.This is of course doable because ANGC has the width to support the lengthening. The course was once known as being very long, but the Augusta many remember had already become somewhat obsolete (distancewise) by the mid 90's. Tiger pushed it over the edge and the Pro V1 sealed the deal. The large amount of "roars" everybody remembers were in part due to the minor lengthening not quite keeping up with the ball in the 90's.They did another 2 rounds of lengthening in the early 2000's. )2002 I believe) Then a few years of cold,bad weather made it seem like they had over corrected-most famously when Zach won laying up)


I do disagree with the ever increasing green speeds as they have been slowly taking the pitch out of the greens in pinnable areas(flatter tiers vs overall slope) to allow the ball to stop somewhere near the pin.This changes the difference between a severe uphill putt and a severe downhill putt, making judgement easier-not harder.(to say nothing of its detrimemntal effect on the world's wanna be policy makers for their clubs)
 It also has the side effect of making the greens borderline unputtable in winds such as they had this weekend-which while strong for Augusta, weren't really that strong at all compared to how the wind blows on the links or even here on Long island.

[JJShanley]

Sean,
Other than Masters week, it's members and their guests.

I thought that Masters invitees had privileges in the month leading up to the tournament.

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
Other than Masters week, it's members and their guests.

I thought that Masters invitees had privileges in the month leading up to the tournament.

Not a whole lot of takers though given their schedules

[Michael Graham]

Sean,
Other than Masters week, it's members and their guests.Oct-May
There are only members tees and back tees-with a vast difference in between.
I know many of their senior members (the majority) struggle as their drives crash into upslopes or don't reach the downslopes so important to play well at ANGC.
Given that winter is their season, the damp cold weather and winter conditions of Augusta would make the back tees prohibitively long for low handicappers and club pros (or even Tour pros). The firm fast (and usually warm)conditions we see during April are not the norm in December, January, or February.
So the scratch player has to choose between 6300 yards or 7500-a choice many low handicappers are used to making.
I think these are referred to as high class problems.


As you say it's a purpose driven course (The Masters)so altering the course for pros makes perfect sense.
Given the ineptitude of the governing bodies, the added distance at ANGC makes sense and other than #7 has properly restored the "shot" values.This is of course doable because ANGC has the width to support the lengthening. The course was once known as being very long, but the Augusta many remember had already become somewhat obsolete (distancewise) by the mid 90's. Tiger pushed it over the edge and the Pro V1 sealed the deal. The large amount of "roars" everybody remembers were in part due to the minor lengthening not quite keeping up with the ball in the 90's.They did another 2 rounds of lengthening in the early 2000's. )2002 I believe) Then a few years of cold,bad weather made it seem like they had over corrected-most famously when Zach won laying up)


I do disagree with the ever increasing green speeds as they have been slowly taking the pitch out of the greens in pinnable areas(flatter tiers vs overall slope) to allow the ball to stop somewhere near the pin.This changes the difference between a severe uphill putt and a severe downhill putt, making judgement easier-not harder.(to say nothing of its detrimemntal effect on the world's wanna be policy makers for their clubs)
 It also has the side effect of making the greens borderline unputtable in winds such as they had this weekend-which while strong for Augusta, weren't really that strong at all compared to how the wind blows on the links or even here on Long island.

Jeff,


During the Masters the fairways are mown in the direction of the tees. Do you know if that is the case for the rest of the year or would that be unnecessary punishment for the members?


As an aside, does anyone have a rough idea of what the average age of ANGC membership is?

[MClutterbuck]

As has been said, October-May the course is mostly used by 1 member and his 3 guests, and it gets quite a lot of play. I would guess a ratio would be closer to 95% amateur - 5% pro. And the course remains a fantastic course for member play, very wide from the member tees, strategic and overall a fairly easy course tee to green, and conditions I have seen allow to shoot for the pins, even sucker pins such as short right on 16. Members have a considerable advantage over guests on the greens. They are extremely tough first time around to putt, but a lot of fun. I would say ANGC is a vey fair test for a 9-12 handicap, that can expect to birdie holes and also 3-putt a lot.

[Sean_A]

Okay, I am guessing that 400 rounds is played each year in coneection with The Masters.  If play is 95% member based, tht means roughly 8000 rounds are played per at Augusta.  Given the course is closed for at least 1/3 of the year; that means Augusta is doing 1000 rounds per open month.  I was under the impression the number of rounds was much less than that.   


Ciao

[MClutterbuck]

Okay, I am guessing that 400 rounds is played each year in coneection with The Masters.  If play is 95% member based, tht means roughly 8000 rounds are played per at Augusta.  Given the course is closed for at least 1/3 of the year; that means Augusta is doing 1000 rounds per open month.  I was under the impression the number of rounds was much less than that.   


Ciao

Sean, I believe it is a lot more than 1000 per month. That would be 33 per day. My guess is that it is a lot more than that, but it is based on just a few data points. Also, that is not counting that a lot of folks play 27 or 36 per day.

[Tom_Doak]

Okay, I am guessing that 400 rounds is played each year in coneection with The Masters.  If play is 95% member based, tht means roughly 8000 rounds are played per at Augusta.  Given the course is closed for at least 1/3 of the year; that means Augusta is doing 1000 rounds per open month.  I was under the impression the number of rounds was much less than that.   


Ciao

I'd agree with Marcos that it's more than that.  The couple of times I've been there, it seemed relatively busy with people coming and going ... I'd guess they had 60 or 80 players the last time I was there, which was in January, a few years ago.  If you knew how many beds they had on property, capacity would be pretty easy to figure out, although they do have a lot of turnover on any given day [one group playing before they leave, another arriving and playing].


Many years ago when I was running the GOLF Magazine panel, when we sent plaques to all the clubs I sent along a quick questionnaire asking how many members they had, number of rounds were played there each year, green fees, initiation fees, etc.  Only about half of the clubs answered, but there was some interesting data.  I wonder if it's still in my office files somewhere?  Somebody should remind me in a couple of days when I get back home.  Of course, these were 1987 or 1989 numbers, but the range of answers was still fascinating.


Michael G:  They can only mow the fairways as they do during The Masters because they have about 50 superintendents helping out.  I don't think they go to that extreme on the normal weekday, and as Jeff says, no one needs the golf course to play any longer during the winter months.

[MClutterbuck]

Yes Tom, 60-80 is more like the number I saw on the course in November-December and I believe I heard this is fairly typical. It is a lot more around the important member events.


Also, I would assume fairway HOC is longer during regular months, so no need to cut against play to make it longer.



 

[Michael Graham]

Thanks Tom. I guessed that would be the case. No need to dent Warren Buffet's pride on his tee shots.


On a somewhat related point. This is an article written by Ewan Murray, the golf correspondent of the Guardian newspaper on what it's like to play the course the Monday after the Masters as a result of winning the media ballot.


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/03/eerie-augusta-winning-lottery-masters

[Gib_Papazian]

I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 

[Kalen Braley]

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 

Gib,

I doubt any of Scotty's beams would be pointed at ANGC in June....the course would be closed and Lawd knows how many greens and turf otherwise would be tore up for "annual maintenance".

[V. Kmetz]

Okay, I am guessing that 400 rounds is played each year in coneection with The Masters.  If play is 95% member based, tht means roughly 8000 rounds are played per at Augusta.  Given the course is closed for at least 1/3 of the year; that means Augusta is doing 1000 rounds per open month.  I was under the impression the number of rounds was much less than that.   


Ciao

My surreptitious entry to the course on a beautiful day January of 1998 was an eye-opener. It was around 11:30 on a Sunday morning, down in the arrowhead of Amen Corner, and I had to stay concealed for nearly an hour until the last of several groups came through that part of the property...I counted 10 groups and 34 golfers in that 50 minutes. I don't know if that was it for the day or more would be coming, but I have always been amazed how busy it was...
cheers
vk

[Mike Hendren]

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course.

Gib, it has been far too long since I enjoyed your company, but I must say that it would come as no surprise to know that you have at least 25 friends who are total nutjobs.

You need to go to Augusta.  Please go.  To my knowledge we haven't had anyone enjoy a scorecard unwich since Shivas' legendary post round snack at National Golf Links of America.  I'm confident enough in the place to make that wager.

Your DoG is spot on based upon this story which I've told here before:   During the Ike era a prominent Nashville businessman is invited to play Augusta and is quite pleased with his 44 on the front nine.  This on a day when the tees are up, greens are soft and slow and hole locations are generous.   On the 10th tee he turns to his caddy - rumored to be Stovepipe, and asks what he considers to be a rhetorical question:  "Tell me Stovepipe, how does my game compare with the President's?"  The reply:  "Very similar, sir - he ain't worth a s@#t neither."

Go Gib.  Go.

Respectfully,
Bogey

Also, in response to another question I would think the average age of the membership is north of 70 and perhaps well north.

[Steve_Lovett]

I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 

I've studied Augusta National since I was a child - have read nearly every book about it and probably watched every Masters since the mid-70's. This year I stepped on the property for the first time, attending Tuesday's practice round. I wasn't totally prepared for all that I saw. I hope you get to visit in person soon.


The feeling of the place when you walk onto the property is majestic. Unlike any golf course or tournament I've attended before. It IS a hilly property and the mid-and-long range territorial views over the property from the clubhouse area are spectacular and were a surprise. I walked the course from the 1st tee through the 18th hole and the way the property moves over and around the site is brilliant. I could see why the 10th was the original 1st hole - it's a spectacularly downhill hole. From a distance, each hole looks less than spectacular - but when you see the property and greens up close it's genius is apparent.


It may not be set in a spectacular ocean or mountain environment like some other places, but after watching the golf and seeing the course it's hard not to crave the opportunity to play it. The overall setting of the club, cottages, par-3 course, and aura of the place is hard to describe and I'd love to play it someday for that, as much as the golf course.

[George Pazin]

I do disagree with the ever increasing green speeds as they have been slowly taking the pitch out of the greens in pinnable areas(flatter tiers vs overall slope) to allow the ball to stop somewhere near the pin.This changes the difference between a severe uphill putt and a severe downhill putt, making judgement easier-not harder.(to say nothing of its detrimemntal effect on the world's wanna be policy makers for their clubs)
 It also has the side effect of making the greens borderline unputtable in winds such as they had this weekend-which while strong for Augusta, weren't really that strong at all compared to how the wind blows on the links or even here on Long island.

Beautiful. I wish those in charge had your wisdom.


-----


I was thinking over the weekend that Augusta might truly be the ideal course, suitable for play by lesser golfers and pros alike.


Not sure I'd accept the word of anyone who says otherwise...


 

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean 98 players playing 2 rounds and 2 practise rounds gives you your 400 rounds. 50 or so make the cut play another 2 rounds. With players arriving early, amateurs visiting in the Autumn, press rounds, tournament worker day(s) I'd expect nearer a 1000 rounds are directly
connected to the Masters.

[jeffwarne]

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass,       
 

Probably just should've left it at that  
Not saying I disagree with your respected friends or your DOG...
but you should know that if Scotty beams you there in JUNE , you might be the first person ever to arrive at ANGC to play and be disappointed.

What always amazes me the MOST though is how many people see it for the first time and are surprised by the openness, width, scale, elevation change undulation-and by how awed they  are.
You'd think those that had never been there would at least give it the benefit of the doubt, given that it consistently exceeds its high expectations.

[Tim_Weiman]

I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 

Gib,


Any student of golf architecture should see Augusta, but like your friends, I wouldn't call it my favorite. Would be pressed to make my top three Mackenzie course.

[Peter Pallotta]

I was under the same impression that Sean was. For some reason I thought that members were politely discouraged from playing the course too often -- and that those who seem like they would want/need to play it too often aren't likely to be offered memberships. But it appears that, like Rick who went to Casablanca for the waters, I was misinformed. Btw, put me down as someone who would highly prize a visit; if I had a bucket list, which I don't, Augusta would be on it.  I know it is an inland course, and it has most of the markings of an inland course, but for the life of me I can't think of another inland course in America that looks (and looks to play) anything like it.
Peter   

[Ronald Montesano]

I've studied Augusta National since I was a child - have read nearly every book about it and probably watched every Masters since the mid-70's. This year I stepped on the property for the first time, attending Tuesday's practice round. I wasn't totally prepared for all that I saw. I hope you get to visit in person soon.

Steve, I wonder if you crossed paths with Kevin Lynch and his chums, who also debuted on Tuesday this year:

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/scrambler-masters-spectator-experience/

[Dave McCollum]

I used to be vaguely in Gib’s camp.  I once had the chance to play ANGC, but back in the day before I started enjoying checking in here and traveling a bit on my own.  In my mind at that time, I put it in the category of Pebble:  no golf course is worth that cost, at least for a hack like me.  A few years ago I wandered down to Pebble and walked the course during a tournament (and a big winter storm) and then did a drive-by tour of all the courses on the peninsula.  My tune changed.  Now I sort of fall into the camp of those that say make the most of your opportunities to experience great golf and have some memories.  I don’t really care nor remember what it cost to have a few of those memories. 

Nice post by Joe on his thread.  He chose wisely.

[cary lichtenstein]

Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??