Would Spieth have melted down had the course setup not been so severe

[David_Tepper]

Howard R. -

Thanks for the link to the Masters data. I see Willett was 6th in Greens in Regulation and 4th in Putting. Those stats will win a lot of golf tournaments.

DT

[Bill_McBride]

Gotta five it to Jordan, allowing himself to be interviewed after play. I can't imagine what is going on inside him. It has to be a crushing blow, but he had been fighting his swing the last couple of days.

Tough to watch him putting the jacket on Willett.   He was not happy. 


I thought his up and down from the back bunker for 7 showed true grit. 

[Jonathan Mallard]

The set up on # 12 was the same as it has been every Sunday for decades. The only player I ever saw challenge that pin on Sunday, make birdie, and go on to win was Crenshaw in 1984. You simply can not flirt with the right side of that green unless you are desperate or stupid.

Thought Phil did as well for one of his?

[Mike Schott]

Great thread. Stupid premise but quality conversation. FWIW, I have no issues with the traditional Sunday pins. AGNC will never forego tradition so don't even try.


Last, on 12, never forget what Nicklaus said, if his ball went at the pin, it was a mishit.

[noonan]

That Sunday pin on 16 delivered a win for Tiger a few years ago.

[jeffwarne]

The set up on # 12 was the same as it has been every Sunday for decades. The only player I ever saw challenge that pin on Sunday, make birdie, and go on to win was Crenshaw in 1984. You simply can not flirt with the right side of that green unless you are desperate or stupid.

Thought Phil did as well for one of his?

Much easier as a lefty as miss right would be long, miss left short
which favor the angle and shape of green

[John Kirk]

I thought the tournament was pretty boring....

Using the same Sunday pins year after year cheapens the tournament, and makes it less interesting.  I'm bored with the same old pins, the same old broadcast, and the same old announcing style.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


I'm amazed anyone could find this boring. Unless you find all televised gold boring. Spieth played well the first day, then consistently squandered every opportunity to stomp on the necks of his competitors, as another golfer circa 2000 would have done. Understand, I'm not blaming Spieth, just saying as special as he is, he's not the one. And I don't think Rory is either, even as I root root root for him.

Setup had little or nothing to do with Spieth's poor play on Amen Corner.

Fun toonamint. If you didn't enjoy it, you don't enjoy toonamint golf.

Hi George,

I admit to be losing interest in major professional sports broadcasts in recent years, instead preferring to be active and do stuff.  I also think the days of professional sports as multi-billion dollar enterprises are numbered.  So I'm a bit cynical about the sports media conglomerate these days.

Matthew Fitzpatrick shot 67 Sunday.  We saw him hit one putt.  We saw all of Jordan Spieth's 73 strokes.

[JESII]

John

When would you have picked up Fitzpatrick? He was about 10 back and in 25th place when Spieth made the turn.

[JESII]

I say that as someone that agrees the first 3.5 days of coverage were really boring.

[John Kirk]

I agree it's a tough decision when to feature some of the other players.  This would not be a problem if they were on the air one extra hour, and eliminated the sentimental, tear-inducing segments in the first 90 minutes.

I am not going to root for Jordan Spieth if he continues to play 4 hour and 35 minute rounds in the final twosome.  He did it twice this Masters, and it causes the final hour of the broadcast to be filled with commercials and few shots played.  It's an affront to reasonable golf and a reasonable telecast.  I expect golfers to keep up with a 4 hour pace for 18 holes, as has been the norm for 20 or 30 years.  A significant amount of blame can be assigned to the glacial pace of play.

I've said it before, but the BBC gets it.  They move around the course, and take in as many shots as possible.  As charming as Nick Faldo has become in his post-golfing career, I want to see shots, and I particularly want to see a budding young talent like Fitzpatrick.

[JESII]

Agree regarding Spieth. He lost me as a fan Saturday afternoon...partially won me back by speaking to media immediately after his round.

[A.G._Crockett]

I thought the tournament was pretty boring....

Using the same Sunday pins year after year cheapens the tournament, and makes it less interesting.  I'm bored with the same old pins, the same old broadcast, and the same old announcing style.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


I'm amazed anyone could find this boring. Unless you find all televised gold boring. Spieth played well the first day, then consistently squandered every opportunity to stomp on the necks of his competitors, as another golfer circa 2000 would have done. Understand, I'm not blaming Spieth, just saying as special as he is, he's not the one. And I don't think Rory is either, even as I root root root for him.


Setup had little or nothing to do with Spieth's poor play on Amen Corner.


I can't believe any sane fan of golf would slander Geoff Ogilvy in such a fashion, either. Them's fightin' words to this guy... Look me up if you come to the Burgh for the US Open and we'll drop the gloves.


 


Fun toonamint. If you didn't enjoy it, you don't enjoy toonamint golf.


Not that there's anything wrong with that.


-----


Excellent post, archie, says everything that needs to be said in mighty concise fashion. Well done.

Agreed, 100%.  I watched all four days, and was never bored with it, and if you don't like the back nine at Augusta on Sunday, then don't watch golf at all; it's the greatest roller coaster ride in sports.

It is hard to overstate much wind there was here in the SE US last week, at least thru Saturday.  It was relatively cold, and the gusts were up to 30 mph.  That there would be ANY expectation that lots of players would go low on those greens in those conditions is odd, to say the least.

As to Speith, he was fighting his swing all week.  That he was in the lead is a tribute to his toughness, his putter, and the inability of anyone else to make a move.  The drives on 17 and 18 on Saturday spoke volumes, but he also left his third shots to both of those greens woefully short.  I'm guessing that those shots and the bogeys on 10 and 11 on Sunday affected him much, much more than we probably thought at the time.

[Kalen Braley]

AG,

You said: "I'm guessing that those shots and the bogeys on 10 and 11 on Sunday affected him much, much more than we probably thought at the time."

This is what is most surprising though.  10 and 11, even for these guys are hard pars and easy bogeys.  So if those two bogeys rattled him, then he's not the player everyone thinks he is in terms of mental game.  Then throw 12 with multiple mistakes, including at least two mental ones and makes one wonder.

[MCirba]

What about his first putt on 18 on Saturday after two chunked chips on 17 and 18?   I'm not sure it made it halfway to the hole.   

A lot of pressure for a 22 year old over the course of a week; I think we tend to forget that as he can seem super-human at times.

[John Kirk]

Hi A.G.,

I agree that Jordan Spieth's efforts to stay in the lead, despite fanning about 20% of his tee shots short and right, was nothing short of heroic.  In other words, how he stayed in the lead for so long was hard to believe.

I already said I was experiencing a bit of personal fatigue on televised sports.  As a veteran sports fan, I am tired of the network broadcasting philosophy.  There is too much incentive to try and enhance the drama of what is happening, and tug at the heartstrings of the viewers.  Especially at the Masters, which is the one of the most sentimental and nostalgic broadcasts each year.  Many years ago, before televisions had lots of controls, my Dad actually opened up his television and connected a mute switch to it, so he could turn off the sound.  I just want the shot (and wind) data, a good angle to watch the shots, and I'll interpret the results to derive emotional impact.

But I'll keep watching.

[A.G._Crockett]

AG,

You said: "I'm guessing that those shots and the bogeys on 10 and 11 on Sunday affected him much, much more than we probably thought at the time."

This is what is most surprising though.  10 and 11, even for these guys are hard pars and easy bogeys.  So if those two bogeys rattled him, then he's not the player everyone thinks he is in terms of mental game.  Then throw 12 with multiple mistakes, including at least two mental ones and makes one wonder.

Kalen,
I don't think it was the score, necessarily; I think it was the way the score came about.  When he had the chance at the end of Saturday's round to run off and hide, he blew two drives way right.  Not just right; WAY right!  And then after two very nice recovery shots, he hit two wedges very heavy and VERY short, adding a three-putt on 18.  He then had to sleep on that Saturday night.

Again, I felt that he was fighting every club in the bag except his putter all week.  As mentally tough as he is for 22, he's still 22 and it's still the back nine at the Masters on Sunday.

[Matthew Petersen]

AG,

You said: "I'm guessing that those shots and the bogeys on 10 and 11 on Sunday affected him much, much more than we probably thought at the time."

This is what is most surprising though.  10 and 11, even for these guys are hard pars and easy bogeys.  So if those two bogeys rattled him, then he's not the player everyone thinks he is in terms of mental game.  Then throw 12 with multiple mistakes, including at least two mental ones and makes one wonder.

Missing the par putt at 11 probably didn't help.


He hit a pretty amazing shot to leave himself the par putt he did and I was saying to my buddy ... "The par he made at #4 and this par ..." And then he missed it.


I know he said after the round that he didn't think making bogey at 10 and 11 "hurt" him but missing the shortish par putt hurt and by that point Willett had made his birdie at 13 so he may well have seen on the scoreboard that the lead was very suddenly down to 2.


He'd been fighting his swing and getting away with it and suddenly on 10 and 11 he paid the price and certainly that was in his head.

[Matthew Petersen]

AG,

You said: "I'm guessing that those shots and the bogeys on 10 and 11 on Sunday affected him much, much more than we probably thought at the time."

This is what is most surprising though.  10 and 11, even for these guys are hard pars and easy bogeys.  So if those two bogeys rattled him, then he's not the player everyone thinks he is in terms of mental game.  Then throw 12 with multiple mistakes, including at least two mental ones and makes one wonder.

Kalen,
I don't think it was the score, necessarily; I think it was the way the score came about.  When he had the chance at the end of Saturday's round to run off and hide, he blew two drives way right.  Not just right; WAY right!  And then after two very nice recovery shots, he hit two wedges very heavy and VERY short, adding a three-putt on 18.  He then had to sleep on that Saturday night.

Again, I felt that he was fighting every club in the bag except his putter all week.  As mentally tough as he is for 22, he's still 22 and it's still the back nine at the Masters on Sunday.

Yes, a 2-shot lead is still nice but it looks a lot smaller when it was 5 twenty minutes earlier. I think he felt pretty invincible walking off the ninth green, despite not having his A game. But by the time he walked off the 11th green, suddenly the outcome was in doubt. It's a real shock to the system to suddenly realize, "I could lose this," especially when it's not losing a contested tournament (a la St Andrews) but actually choking away a big lead.

[Kalen Braley]

Matt and AG,

Your comments are duly noted...I would certainly agree it didn't help the confidence.

But in the bigger picture, and I hope I'm totally wrong about this, I'm seeing Spieth as closer to Norman than Woods when it comes to mental resilience and righting the ship.  It was cringe-worthy seeing him over-analyzing everything on that 12th hole and self-destruct.  Hopefully just a hiccup and not a sign of things to come....

[Matthew Petersen]

Matt and AG,

Your comments are duly noted...I would certainly agree it didn't help the confidence.

But in the bigger picture, and I hope I'm totally wrong about this, I'm seeing Spieth as closer to Norman than Woods when it comes to mental resilience and righting the ship.  It was cringe-worthy seeing him over-analyzing everything on that 12th hole and self-destruct.  Hopefully just a hiccup and not a sign of things to come....

I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that's not his MO. Sometimes you just have to be in that situation to know how to handle it if something similar happens again.

[Doug_Feeney]

It is hard to overstate much wind there was here in the SE US last week, at least thru Saturday.  It was relatively cold, and the gusts were up to 30 mph.  That there would be ANY expectation that lots of players would go low on those greens in those conditions is odd, to say the least.

^ This.  Thurs-Sat scoring had very little to do with course set-up and everything to do with wind.  I was there all 3 days and was amazed that anyone was shooting under par in those conditions.  The only time it laid down was late on Saturday.  If anything I would say the greens appeared to be very receptive all 4 days.  They easily could have made the course near impossible if they wished.

[Charlie_Bell]

If the set-up had been less severe, he might have made 8 birdies.

[archie_struthers]

 




Don't think the set up was too severe . Wind really makes fast greens ultra difficult. As many have stated lots of birdies and a couple 67's out there.


I'm struggling like Sully with Spieth's incredibly slow pre shot routine and pace of play. However it's really making the composure he has at the age of 22.   22 guys , that's how old he is , 22 !


He was struggling with his ball striking all week , which speaks to his great talent being in contention til the end. . Of course the Masters has always been a putters tournament , so he always has a punchers chance.


In the end , perhaps he will learn from his mistake on 12 .  Long left is the only play with the lead .

[A.G._Crockett]

Matt and AG,

Your comments are duly noted...I would certainly agree it didn't help the confidence.

But in the bigger picture, and I hope I'm totally wrong about this, I'm seeing Spieth as closer to Norman than Woods when it comes to mental resilience and righting the ship.  It was cringe-worthy seeing him over-analyzing everything on that 12th hole and self-destruct.  Hopefully just a hiccup and not a sign of things to come....

Kalen,
Let's agree that there is a LOT of gray area between Norman and Woods!  At 22, Speith's career MUCH more resembles Woods than Norman, I think you'd agree.  At 22, Norman was still 4 years from even making his first Masters appearance, and his history of Sunday disasters was still far in his future.  And the futures of Mize, et al...

I also believe that we'd do well not to compare ANYBODY to Woods in terms of closing out tournaments on the lead on Sunday.  Nobody ever did it better before him, and it's possible that you and I will go to our graves never having seen anybody do it better after him, either.  That Speith isn't Woods in that regard is not significant unless it becomes a trend.

[Kalen Braley]

AG,

Fair enough, the spectrum is fairly wide between The Shark and Woods, but they are both clearly legends of the game and Hall of Famers, so maybe not as wide as one thinks...

Perhaps I should detail a little bit more of what I saw.  I saw a lot of second guessing, a lot of little nervous ticks, a lot of wiggles like what Sergio dealt with, a lot of over-analyzing, just a lot of little signs that could add up to something significant the next time he's in contention at a major.  And my reference point is....I don't recall him doing these kinds of things during his win last year and previous big tourney wins.  He was just full of confidence and never in doubt, so at least to me it seemed fairly alarming to watch him pulling a Norman...

P.S.  I still do hope I'm wrong on this one...go Spieth!!  (Just hurry the hell up OK!)