[Gib_Papazian]

I cannot mount a credible argument against that assertion.

#18 is an awkward amalgamation of everything we loathe in the Treehouse - all jammed together in the most ham-handed way imaginable. #18 at Cypress is comparatively unremarkable, but it is still a reasonably cogent architectural expression.

The last hole at the Masters is an unnecessarily constrictive, bilious urp that makes zero strategic sense. It is like putting a steaming turd atop an ice cream sundae and pretending it's a a cherry.

What idiot thought it would be a good idea to put the tee at the back of a gun barrel, lined with overgrown pines and then put a couple bunkers in an uphill landing area (which is all you can see) - forcing a duck slice (or hard draw for lefties) just to get the ball in the fairway?

How many times have we seen (Cabrera comes to mind) great players drill one into the branches right off the tee? The rest of the golf course feels expansive and suddenly you come to this ridiculous chute because the Green Coats cannot stand anybody hitting a short iron into the last hole of the Masters.

Actually, even before they ruined the hole, it was marginal at best. A blah, uphill slog to the clubhouse whose only quasi-notable feature is a double-tiered putting surface.

I've never bothered to go there - no real interest given the ephemeral evolution of the golf course - but can't they do better than to finish on such a flat note?

           

[Ronald Montesano]

What defines "Championship Golf"?


Is it worse than #18 at Southern Hills? Oak Hill East? Pinehurst#2? All three are nearly identical to the 18th at Augusta: hard doglegs right, uphill second shot...get my point?

[John Kavanaugh]

This from a member of Olympic. I'd say that I owed you one but even I'm not that lame.

[Ronald Montesano]

This from a member of Olympic. I'd say that I owed you one but even I'm not that lame.

Where is the HEART button for that comment?

[Gib_Papazian]

Barney,

The 18th on our Lake Course is not terribly difficult, but it *is* beautiful. Even an aesthetically challenged Hoosier who lays cement for living has to admit the view from our 18th tee is one of the prettiest in golf.

Is #18 at Augusta beautiful from the tee? It looks like an outtake from the Ewok Adventure - a corridor of trees with nothing in the distance to look at but a couple of artless bunkers.

Ronald,

Comparing those holes to #18 at Augusta is a bit of a stretch. Yes, they are all uphill, with a dogleg to the right, but Rosanne Barr and Charlize Theron both have two breasts and two X chromosomes, but that is where the similarities end.

Actually, I am not sure about Rosanne Barr's chromosomes.   

[John Connolly]

The hole does encourage a tee ball with a shape. Surely, that's worth something.

[jim_lewis]

Gib:
I have not seen all of the courses that clain to be "championship courses", but I have seen most of the courses that host majors for the men. #18 at ANGC may be the worse, but it was before most of the current members joined the club. Your assessment of the hole will gain credibility if you ever see it in person.


Ronald:  #18 at Pinehurst #2 is a far better hole. Southern Hills #18 must be a great hole. I made one of my all time best birdies the only time I ever played it.

[Kalen Braley]

The original iteration didn't seem too bad....but gotta agree with Gib here.  Never been a fan of 18 in the slightest.

[Jim Nugent]

I disagree with Gib, and here's why:

The pro's can hit less than driver, stay short of the bunkers, and have anywhere from 4 to 8 iron into the green.  Tiger, e.g., hit 3 wood/8 iron for birdie to win the playoff with DiMarco. 

They can hit driver, challenge the bunkers, and have still less club. 

The fairway bunkers are not jail.  Sandy Lyle, e.g., hit his second shot out of there to about 6 feet, sank the putt and won the championship.   

If the pro's hit into the trees on the right, they still can have a shot at par (or better). 

Average score for #18 through all Masters is 4.159.  That makes it the 8th hardest hole on the course against par.  Pretty much right in the middle.  But it has produced great drama, with a number of golfers making dramatic birdies to win... and many others making bogey or worse to lose. 

Excellent finishing hole IMO, demanding but yielding to those who execute. 



 

[Kalen Braley]

Jim,

I think you're confusing the intrinsic traits associated with an 18th hole in a meaningful golf tournament and actually having a good 18th hole.

Hell the 18th at Torrey Pines has produced just as much drama, if not more than 18 at Augusta.  Does that mean that abortion of a hole is good also?

[jim_lewis]

Say what?


To be clear, I love Augusta National, but I don't like #18. Didn't like it 40 years ago either.  Now that you mentioned it, I don't like the finishing hole at Torrey Pines either.

[Mike Hendren]

I've never bothered to go there - no real interest given the ephemeral evolution of the golf course....
         

Et tu, Gyro?

Wow.  How much does it hurt one to totally fall off a pedestal?  Well at least you eschewed the "P" word. 

I can only assume you've been over-served at Max's Lounge.

Bogey

[Mark Bourgeois]

Pretty solid second-shot hole; especially when placed in the context of the go/stop rhythm of the back second nine.

[Jon Wiggett]

The hole not only gives the player multiple options on both the tee shot and second shot but also requires the player to make a decision before playing any shot on the hole. It might not be outstanding but IMHO it is a good golf hole.

Jon

[Marty Bonnar]

I still think PB 18 is as dull as dishwater. And did I say I hate the wall...

F.

Dank it. I swore I wouldn't post on an Augusta thread...

[Kalen Braley]

Say what?


To be clear, I love Augusta National, but I don't like #18. Didn't like it 40 years ago either.  Now that you mentioned it, I don't like the finishing hole at Torrey Pines either.

Jim

My comments were directed at the other Jim....Mr. Nugent.   

[Mike Hendren]

All the 18th requires is that you really golf your ball.  Isn't that good architecture?

[Kalen Braley]

All the 18th requires is that you really golf your ball.  Isn't that good architecture?

"Really golf your ball"

That sounds like US Open code speak for "hit it straight, and hit it far...or else"

[Mike Schott]

Pretty solid second-shot hole; especially when placed in the context of the go/stop rhythm of the back second nine.

This. The golfer must hit the green in the right spot or else they are in trouble. And don't miss this green in the wrong spot. Ask Greg Norman.


It's a far better final hole than 18 at Doral or the other holes on the using a lake as a hazard.

[Howard Riefs]

Apparently we've already moved on from the 18th hole at the last major....

[Mike Hendren]

All the 18th requires is that you really golf your ball.  Isn't that good architecture?

"Really golf your ball"

That sounds like US Open code speak for "hit it straight, and hit it far...or else"

Kalen, I hope you are enjoying watching your first Masters Tournament.   Straight and far on 18 doesn't work on either shot.

Bogey

[Matthew Petersen]

It's not a great hole, but I don't see anything especially wrong with it.


My nomination for the title would be Bethpage Black.

[Kalen Braley]

All the 18th requires is that you really golf your ball.  Isn't that good architecture?

"Really golf your ball"

That sounds like US Open code speak for "hit it straight, and hit it far...or else"

Kalen, I hope you are enjoying watching your first Masters Tournament.   Straight and far on 18 doesn't work on either shot.

Bogey

Fair enough, shoulda' left out the hit it far part.  I was thinking when they last lengthened the hole like 5 or 6 years ago?? and Mark O'Meara couldn't even reach the corner of the dogleg....

[Jeff_Brauer]

The original iteration didn't seem too bad....but gotta agree with Gib here.  Never been a fan of 18 in the slightest.

Not sure what is different about the original iteration.  The narrow chute was always there, albeit, it is probably even narrower now.  If anything, it looks like the original fw bunker cut off the drive but made the fw too narrow for a fade, compared to today.  The green bunker scheme is similar, but the (IMHO) goofy little Mac front tongue is out.  I know they moved the original FW bunker back for Jack, then added one for those longer than Jack, then finally added a back tee for those longer than those longer than Jack.

Have to admit, only seen it once since then, and didn't really take the time to look over the narrowness and angle of the tee shot.  Didn't have the impression that it was a snap slice, like the old 18th at Medinah (to balance their 9th, which was a snap hook tee shot required) but that you could lay up or hit a fade with a drive, not a terrible choice to make on the final hole.

I never thought it was a great hole, but wouldn't classify it anywhere near the worst.  I recall someone saying "not a good hole once they decided the old house was going to be the clubhouse" which I basically agree with.  As anyone who has been there knows, it looks far more uphill than it does on TV.

[Jim Nugent]

Jim,

I think you're confusing the intrinsic traits associated with an 18th hole in a meaningful golf tournament and actually having a good 18th hole.

Hell the 18th at Torrey Pines has produced just as much drama, if not more than 18 at Augusta.  Does that mean that abortion of a hole is good also?

Kalen, the hole gives the pros options.  It's not really penal -- even if they don't hit the shot well, they can play their next shot, and often from a position that leaves them a decent chance at par or even birdie. 

If you think this hole is bad, how do you feel about 18 at Pebble?     

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