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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Next up in Cabo New
« on: April 06, 2016, 04:54:03 PM »
Next up in Cabo is the course at Rancho San Lucas. The course will be designed by Greg Norman and team and located about 2 miles up the coast from Diamante. They will begin scratching around and moving dirt son, perhaps 9 holes planted and ready for early 2017.

The land is pretty good but nothing like the Dunes Course at Diamante. It appears they will have a few holes along the Pacific Ocean in some form of dunescape. Beyond that the land transitions to more typical Cabo terrain, aka Desert, rather abruptly. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I doubt it will be a "top tier" course by Cabo standards but we shall see soon enough.

Also getting started in the near future will be the course at the Cabo Riviera Project (renamed Costa Palmas) on the Sea of Cortés along the east cape. RTJ2 will be the architect. No firm timeframe on this one but if I have to guess I would say a mid to late  2017 opening of at least 9 holes.

And at the risk of drawing the ire of John Kavanaugh I'll leave you with this...

We really need Doak, C&C or the like to get in the game down here. Something different and fresh.

PS - Carl Nichols can bomb it for a lefty
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 05:17:25 PM by Greg Tallman »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 08:50:00 PM »
Greg,

I'm excited for you. give Norman a chance, poor guy deserves a break. At his age and given his recent injury I can't think of another celeb from whom I'd rather see a new course. I love the guy on so many levels.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 11:38:16 AM »
JK - Get excited for me when we finally get to build our private club, par three course, putting course and short game area.

Until then I'll just hope that certain proven developer can find a way to acquire the wonderful land just south of where Norman is workingh these days. Perhaps when the land emerges from foreclosure the acquisition cost will be a bit more manageable. Probably the last chance for another truly great course in the immediate area.   

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 09:21:16 AM »
Couldn't agree more Greg..the great white fish finger has done nothing to promote much excitement for this project and the area is begging for a breath of fresh air in its golf srchitecture.....sameness is starting to show.
Outside of "our" big three sameness is the game of the day
That been said that big three is very good

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 03:29:53 PM »
Couldn't agree more Greg..the great white fish finger has done nothing to promote much excitement for this project and the area is begging for a breath of fresh air in its golf srchitecture.....sameness is starting to show.
Outside of "our" big three sameness is the game of the day
That been said that big three is very good

Agreed on all points. CDS, CBC & DD are truly world class. Ocean could use a Little makeover though,  a little lipstick if you will.

Was just told CBC will be closed for 6-7 months beginning next week. Sounds like some changes are coming there now that Discovery Land Co. has taken over. Perhpas they will revisit the original plan in terms of bunker and native edge finishes that had been abandoned. Hope so, the place looked fabulous with that "treatment".

Got a look at the new 10th (soon to be 11th) at Diamante a few weeks back. It's an improvement on the original, though that wasn't a difficult task. Much better green site at the very least. Looking forward to playing it in a week or so, unless I am disinvited which is a distinct possibility.  ::)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 10:45:24 AM »
I thought the slope on the new tenth was rather severe for a per four of that length,very hard to hit and hold that green when downwind, but love the site itself, andI agree a big improvement .
If your invite should get removed....somehow very unlikely...see you in December
Maybe the new piers at CBC will modify our " favorite" hole😉

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 12:51:36 PM »
I thought the slope on the new tenth was rather severe for a per four of that length,very hard to hit and hold that green when downwind, but love the site itself, andI agree a big improvement .
If your invite should get removed....somehow very unlikely...see you in December
Maybe the new piers at CBC will modify our " favorite" hole😉

If ever a hole needed modified it is that one. What the heck were they thinking (or drinking)?

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 01:17:18 PM »
Next up in Cabo is the course at Rancho San Lucas. The course will be designed by Greg Norman and team and located about 2 miles up the coast from Diamante. They will begin scratching around and moving dirt son, perhaps 9 holes planted and ready for early 2017.

The land is pretty good but nothing like the Dunes Course at Diamante. It appears they will have a few holes along the Pacific Ocean in some form of dunescape. Beyond that the land transitions to more typical Cabo terrain, aka Desert, rather abruptly. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I doubt it will be a "top tier" course by Cabo standards but we shall see soon enough.

Also getting started in the near future will be the course at the Cabo Riviera project on the Sea of Cortés along the east cape. RTJ2 will be the architect. No firm timeframe on this one but if I have to guess I would say a mid to late  2017 opening of at least 9 holes.

And at the risk of drawing the ire of John Kavanaugh I'll leave you with this...

We really need Doak, C&C or the like to get in the game down here. Something different and fresh.

PS - Carl Nichols can bomb it for a lefty


Greg--
Thanks for the info and for hosting me two weeks ago.  For those who haven't had the pleasure, Greg is a terrific host and CDS Ocean is an excellent course--beautiful, well-conditioned, and lots of strategic choices.  And with the wind we had, it was a great test of my early spring game . . . . which failed. 


 

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 02:01:58 PM »
Greg,


What's CBC?  It looks like last year's planned trip may happen this year.


« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 02:15:16 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2016, 02:08:47 PM »
Chileno Bay Club, very good Fazio a couple miles up the road from Cabo del Sol. Recently taken over by Discovery Land Co.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 05:29:32 PM »
I thought the slope on the new tenth was rather severe for a per four of that length,very hard to hit and hold that green when downwind, but love the site itself, andI agree a big improvement .



Michael...I wasn't aware you had a chance to play the new hole. The entire right half of the green is a high walled punch bowl on 3 sides with a fairway extension in front to help short shots recover, and hitting long is not a penalty. The left half is bunker-less on its front and side, and the the front is open to run/chip/putt on if short. Yes, there is a bunker front middle and back left...but this is golf after all, mimicking life at times and replete with risks and challenges.


The hole is designed as a solid 4.5, meaning that a person of your high ability (or Greg's), should be happy if you par the hole 50% of the time.


Let me know how the math works out for you two!  :-*
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 05:32:06 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 05:39:03 PM »
I thought the slope on the new tenth was rather severe for a per four of that length,very hard to hit and hold that green when downwind, but love the site itself, andI agree a big improvement .



Michael...I wasn't aware you had a chance to play the new hole. The entire right half of the green is a high walled punch bowl on 3 sides with a fairway extension in front to help short shots recover, and hitting long is not a penalty. The left half is bunker-less on its front and side, and the the front is open to run/chip/putt on if short. Yes, there is a bunker front middle and back left...but this is golf after all, mimicking life at times and replete with risks and challenges.


The hole is designed as a solid 4.5, meaning that a person of your high ability (or Greg's), should be happy if you par the hole 50% of the time.


Let me know how the math works out for you two!  :-*

If I can par the hole half the time it is obviously a flawed golf hole. I tried a 3-sided punch bowl once...  had to buy new carpet.  ;)

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2016, 03:23:04 AM »
Lol...now back to bed. :)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 11:25:10 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2016, 01:22:04 PM »
My biggest critique of the new 10th would come within the context of the overall course, that is the realtive severity of the approaches at 9, 10 and 11 in succession. Individually perhpas not bad but cumulatively a touch off-putting at times.


Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 03:42:23 PM »
I thought the slope on the new tenth was rather severe for a per four of that length,very hard to hit and hold that green when downwind, but love the site itself, andI agree a big improvement .



Paul
Not being critical mate...I agree with the par 4.5 concept but that slope seperating front and back is rather severe.
A long iron, or hybrid or even a fairway wood into that green doesn't have to be far off line to end up on the wrong side of that ridge leaving a very very testy if not impossible...back to front....two putt.
So I guess from a purist I am saying I can hit two good shots there and end up with very little chance of making par.

That been said.....100% better hole than before and I love the hole.
The tee shot over the big bunker complex is very very deceiving, I was left posing on my first attempt expecting to see the ball rolling out on the fairway, only to see it come to an abrupt standstill in the bunker ???

You know me if the card says 4 par...never going to be happy with par half the time ;)
Nothing worse than good golfers with egos to detract from what an architect is trying to achieve 8)

Didn't take me long to figure that is not MY line!!!!








Let me know how the math works out for you two!  :-*
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 03:45:44 PM by Michael Wharton-Palmer »

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 11:59:47 AM »
Played the new hole(s) a couple days ago.

The new 10th, while an overall improvement, is a work in progress. The remnants of the old hole/green complex detract from the experience and, once removed/remediated, the hole will be infinitely more pleasing visually. Beyond that I would see some softening in the cards. Both the green and right side landing area (right of center line bunker) might benefit from "smoothing out".

Playing from the 2 tees the hole played in the neighborhood of 490.  I authored one of my better tee balls at the right edge of the center bunker, landed on the very top of one of the "moguls" and backed up 6 feet. These "moguls" are what I think might need softening or "ironing". If the turf would allow a fast and firm game my ball may have kicked 20-30 yards in any direction adding to the randomness of the game. Unfortunately that is not going to happen on the paspalum turf. It is what it is and I honestly think the design should take that into consideration.

At any rate from there I had a 204 yard shot from a wicked uphill lie with my left foot about a foot above my right... tough sledding after what was, for me, a perfect tee ball. Hybrid shot from there that I thought would be quite good fell short in the front/right bunker from where I could not play at the hole. Poor me. Not really, I was able to utilize the severe slope in the middle of the green to contain the bunker shot and redirect it in the general vicinity of the hole. While I think the slope is too sever for the hole in general it made this shot possible and, more importantly, fun. There are a handful of such opportunities (the new 12th being the craziest and coolest example) around the Dunes course which makes it quite entertaining to play.

Bottom line on the new 10th - Improvement that will continue to improve. Pretty sure PC and crew have some plans that will be acted upon. It's a tough deal when doing such things on the fly with a course open for play. Taking a cut at it, watching how it plays for different levels of players, then revisiting the design is fine in my book. Having PC on site and able to make minor revisions here and there is a huge plus. Fast forward a year and I suspect the 10th will be a very good golf hole, perhaps a bit less demanding while still serving as a "half par" hole... any 4 will be hard earned even if softened.

Then again, I made 4 so maybe PC should make it harder.  ;)

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Next up in Cabo
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2016, 05:04:38 PM »
Yet another course is about to begin here in Cabo. the Project immediately northeast of Cabo del Sol will begin construction on their course pretty soon. The course will be designed by Todd Eckenrode and will be within the MaraVilla development which will also be home to a Montage Hotel.

So within the next 18 months we should see three new courses and the completion of the Nicklaus course at Puerto Los Cabos.

Beyond that there are no less than 6 major hotel projects under construction at the moment. Investment in Cabo is booming.