Lawrenceville School Golf Course - Collaboration anyone?

[Mark_Fine]

Here are some things we know and some things that are just speculation:

• We know that the course (or at least A course) still exists at Lawrenceville School.
• We know that it was redesigned (I walked it yesterday) so I know this for a fact.
• We believe is was redesigned by William Gordon in the 50’s (the changes look like Gordon’s handiwork).
• The original course was believed to be opened in 1890 making it one of the oldest courses in the country
• The school believes that “John Reid” designed the original course (the John Reid of the Apple Tree Gang)
• Not many people know that there were two John Reid’s doing some kind of design work during that time period (the other one is John “Jack” Reid)
• We don’t know if Gordon changed the routing (early aerials need to be found) to confirm this one way or the other
• We also don’t know what the original course looked like (because Gordon changed it)
• Early photographs of the course will be found with some digging and research and this will help understand the original look of the design
• As it exists now, it is a Gordon 9-holer, but with some work (especially if the routing is still intact), it could be restored to represent a cool piece of early U.S. golf history

I have been retained to hopefully do a restoration of the course but there is a lot of research and fact finding to do before any major decisions can be made. 


I thought it might be fun to throw this out to the group here and make this a collaborative project.  Credit would fall where any credit is due. 


Email me if you have any interest or information about the two John Reid’s, the Lawrenceville School course, or any other John Reid designs.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Holy crap!


I went to Lawrenceville and have played that course no fewer than 200 times.
Sven Nilsen actually knows a fair amount about it.


Best hole by far is the par four 4th.
would love to know more. Feel free to PM me.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Max Behr was an alumnus.

[Mark_Fine]

Ian,
I just emailed you.


Jim,
Didn't know that about Behr.  Very cool!

[Jim_Kennedy]

There are aerials available at Historicaerials.com from 1931, '40, '47, '53, etc..


There was a course right next to the school course that was lost sometime between '40 and '47. Looks like it's sport fields now. I believe it was the Lawrenceville Golf Club.

[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
I have ordered those. There is still a course next to the school today.  We just have to find out more about its origin/evolution. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Harper's says Seymour G. Dunn built it in 1896.


Mark,


If you look at Historic aerials you'll see a golf course adjacent to the school's which was completely obliterated sometime between 1940 and 1947. it is now used for a huge array of solar panels. It appears that the school's course remains on the same piece of property from '31 forward, and it looks fairly rudimentary through the 1953 aerial. The 1957 aerial shows the 'new' course on the same school property, and it shows that a lot of work has been done to it. 

[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
Thanks!  Good stuff.  I will review the aerials closely and compare to what I walked yesterday.  I know about the solar panels (saw the solar farm yesterday as well). 


Yes Dunn has been mentioned before as well.  He gets mentioned a lot but I am not always sure the reference is correct.  A course I worked on in New Jersey years ago (Ft. Monmouth - formerly Suneagles) was cited as a Seymour Dunn course but we confirmed it as an original Tillinghast design.  We found the club's opening day membership book

[Jaeger Kovich]

Interesting stuff. I've played it a bunch of times, but went to a different school. We were hockey rivals, not golf rivals!

[Sven Nilsen]

Mark:


I highly doubt the course dates back to 1890, and I doubt it was laid out by John Reid from St. Andrew's. 


If it had been, it would undoubtedly have been cited back then when they talked about the first courses in America, predating Shinnecock by a year.  It wasn't.


I also have no reason to doubt that Seymour Dunn did work on the course in 1896, whether it was actually laying out the first course or putting in a new course in place of one that existed prior.  The citation for this is the 1900 Harper's Report which is a fairly contemporaneous source, with information on attributions having been provided by the club's themselves.  I've seen John "Jack" Reid's name associated there, but have yet to see anything from that era that confirms his involvement.  Anything prior to 1896 would have been a bit early for Reid, so I suspect his work, if any, came about after Dunn.


All of this is subject to change if there is any concrete evidence to prove otherwise, but the John Reid of St. Andrews in 1890 theory doesn't make any sense right now.


The big question in all of this is how the course evolved over the years, and what era would present the most interesting bit of history to recapture in a restoration.  I suspect the first version of the course was probably pretty rudimentary, and may not provide much in the way of interest to the modern player.  At some point early on, it may have been a fairly good representation of the early geometric school of design, something you don't see many remnants of today. 


All the best,


Sven

[Mark_Fine]

Sven,
Can't argue with anything you said and I really appreciate your insight.   There is much more research and investigation to be done but something of this historic significance deserves the effort especially when there is an interest in doing something to restore it IF it makes sense. 

I think what is most critical is the original routing.  It the original course (whoever designed it) has the solar farm on it, we have a problem.  I don't think they are going to remove the solar farm.   All we would have at this point is a 1954 William Gordon 9-Holer. 

As I said above, I have copies of the aerials that Jim found on the way and will make careful study and comparisons. 

Keep the info coming guys.  Thanks and I will mention all of you and your efforts in my initial report.

I remember years ago, we almost gave up hope finding out the original designer of a course I was working on outside of Philadelphia and Mike Cirba solved it 😊   

[Ian Mackenzie]

Interesting stuff. I've played it a bunch of times, but went to a different school. We were hockey rivals, not golf rivals!

What?!! Did you got to the Hill School?
I played hockey at Lawrenceville.

[Tim_Weiman]

Interesting stuff. I've played it a bunch of times, but went to a different school. We were hockey rivals, not golf rivals!

What?!! Did you got to the Hill School?
I played hockey at Lawrenceville.

Wow! As a Hill School grad I never thought I would see the school (or Lawrenceville) mentioned here.


Did drive by Lawrenceville not long ago on the way to Reunions at Princeton. Forget how nice Lawrenceville was.


Good Luck to Mark Fine.

[Mark_Fine]

Thanks Tim.  It will take a little luck to figure out the true history behind the golf course.  Progress is being made already thanks to a number of you on this site.  I've received a dozen or more emails already with some good leads/information.  Keep it coming.  Thanks.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Interesting stuff. I've played it a bunch of times, but went to a different school. We were hockey rivals, not golf rivals!

What?!! Did you got to the Hill School?
I played hockey at Lawrenceville.

No not the Hill School.

[Bret Lawrence]

Mark,


Lawrenceville has all of their old school newspapers digitized.  If you check with the school archives, they may have a number of aerial photos too. Both Taft and Hotchkiss have numerous aerial photos.   It seems like every time a new building was erected, the school or the builder commissioned a new aerial.


Here is a link to the school newspaper collection.




http://digitalarchives.lawrenceville.org/Olive/APA/Lawrenceville/#panel=home


Bret

[MCirba]

And the winner is...

Mr. James Swan, golf professional, originally from Musselburgh.

A few years later, Mr. Swan made some revisions during construction to the new Princeton Golf Course that had been designed originally by Willie Dunn that opened in 1902.   Hugh Wilson was on the Green Committee while the course was being built.

Thanks Bret!

[MCirba]

By 1906, Mr. James Norton became instructor and made some extensive changes to the course.

He later designed a new 18 hole course for Trenton Country Club.

[Sven Nilsen]

Mike:


Can you link to or paste in the articles you're finding? 

Sven

[MCirba]

Mike:


Can you link to or paste in the articles you're finding? 

Sven

January 16, 1897

New Golf Links.  Dr. Mackenzie is trying to make the game of golf one of our regular sports, and the School has purchased enough ground in the vicinity to make a very large and excellent course. Mr. James Swan, who was Superintendent at the St. Andrew's Club, of Yonkers, N. Y., last year, and held the same position the year before with the Shinnecock Club, of Long Island, has entire charge of laying out the course and instructing the fellows. Mr. Swan is originally from Musselburg, Scotland, but as we have said above, he has been in this country for a year or two. At present there are only six links, but this can easily be changed into either a nine or eighteen-link course. Of course nothing much can be done before spring, but Mr. Swan says that when the course is completed it will be one of the best in the country.
The fellows take a great interest already in the game, for at least a hundred were out on Monday. Of course they do not, in a great majority of the cases, know much about the game, but there are a few that play very well, and doubtless in the near future there will be a golf club organized which will be an honor to Lawrenceville.
 

[MCirba]

Jan 12 1906

CHANGES IN THE GOLF LINKS  Mr. Norton, the golf instructor, has been hard at work lately remodeling the golf links, which will present an entirel y new appearance when the season opens again next April. Recently a revised plan of the course was sent by Mr. Norton and the team captain to Mr. Green, who was enthusiastic over the proposed changes and gave his approval to them.
The changes, briefly stated, are as follows : The tee on the third hole will be set back twenty yards, and the green placed in the corner formed_o by the road and churchyard, making the hole some hundred yards longer. The tee on the fourth hole will also be moved back thirty yards beside the road, and a deep sand pit placed on the other side of the creek to trap a sliced drive. The bunkers on the fourth and sixth holes have been deepened and the mounds raised. Wings have also been added to them, thereby forming a semi-circular trap about the green.
The tee on the fifth hole will be set back sixty yards among the trees, the shrubbery directl y in front of the tee being cut down. The same pit which will catch the sliced drive on the fourth hole, will also punish a poor shot on this hole. New tees will be built on all the holes, and in some instances new greens will be made.
The plans when carried out will not onl y lengthen the course to 3, 000 yards, but will call for great deal more accurate play. Mr. Norton, who is enthusiastic over them, has been diligently superintending the work for the past week, and promises a golf course in the spring fully fifty per cent, better than the old one.
 

[Sven Nilsen]

Does that sound like there was a 6 hole course there prior to Swan doing his work?


Sven

[MCirba]

No, Swan's course opened as 6 holes and wasn't expanded to 9 until a year or two later.

If you search for "golf links" under the exact phrase you get more than just "golf" which is one of those weird search engine peculiarities.   I'm just getting started but the rest of my day may preclude further digging.

[MCirba]

On pages 8 and 9 of the September 1, 1953 issue there is a terrific article that is the only mention of Seymour Dunn, but that also talks about the Swan course and it's location.

Perhaps someone can reproduce those pages here as I have to run to a meeting?

[MCirba]

Also found the only other "Dunn" reference being a May 1901 article that seems to indicate that "Mr. Dunn" is the instructor of golf at the time.