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Ronald Montesano

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Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« on: February 27, 2016, 11:29:37 AM »
http://www.golfdigest.com/story/report-augusta-national-close-to-deal-to-lengthen-iconic-13th-hole


There is room to take the 9th at Augusta Country Club to the left of its present fairway, but who will they hire to make it Ross-like?


(JUST REALIZED that this is also being addressed in the concurrent thread, so ignore this one if you like.)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 11:49:34 AM by Ronald Montesano »
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2016, 11:58:03 AM »
Given that Silva did the most recent Rosstoration, he would seem a likely choice.


Interesting that in previous article speculation it stated Fazio would be thrown in with the deal, this article says an architect would be hired as part of the deal.


But that could just be journalism differences/sources


or perhaps ACC wanted their own architect and it never occurred to ANGC that someone might want someone besides Fazio....


Some fond memories sitting in the woods on 9 at ACC growing up watching The Masters from behind 13 tee
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David_Tepper

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2016, 03:16:39 PM »
I am trying to remember a Bob Dylan line about money not speaking, but swearing. ;)

http://golfweek.com/news/2016/feb/26/augusta-national-masters-par-5-13th-hole-add-land/
 
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Mike_Young

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2016, 04:05:50 PM »
All laughed a few weeks ago when I mentioned this was getting ready to happen.  I'm betting there is more than just 9th hole and a few more cabins in the works?  BP isout of control with all of this commercialism....
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2016, 05:42:06 PM »
Next Step: Sell the entire ACC to ANGC, purchase land nearby, build the only Coore/Doak (or Doak/Coore) course in the world.
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2016, 05:57:02 PM »
Quote from: Ronald Montesano on February 27, 2016, 05:42:06 PM
Next Step: Sell the entire ACC to ANGC, purchase land nearby, build the only Coore/Doak (or Doak/Coore) course in the world.


no nearby land
With all due repect to both architects-noooooooo


The reported move makes sense as there is a lot of land between 8 and 9 fairway-all forest but similar land to 9 fairway.    27 million is a lot of money for what could actually be an improved hole at ACC
Whether they link back to the original 9 green making it a dogleg is the question.
9 green is a long walk to 10 tee, especially with recent lengthening of 10 at ACC.
If they move the green further left, the walk will really get long.
Should've arranged a minor land swap with ANGC for just a bit more room around 8 green at ACC which was moved across Rae's creek in the late 80's and has been an awkward hole ever since
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Phil Young

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2016, 06:33:12 PM »
Leave 13 alone... change the par to 4 and it becomes a fantastic risk/reward par-4 as everyone will have to go at it in two.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2016, 06:42:11 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on February 27, 2016, 04:05:50 PM
I'm betting there is more than just 9th hole and a few more cabins in the works?  BP isout of control with all of this commercialism....


It reminds me of our current political campaigns ... there is so much money out there that crazy things result.  The financial windfall of hosting The Masters has left the club incapable of resisting its most far-fetched ideas, because there is plenty of money to do so, every single year.  Most projects with unlimited budgets turn out awful; think Waterworld.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2016, 06:43:36 PM »
Quote from: Ronald Montesano on February 27, 2016, 05:42:06 PM
Next Step: Sell the entire ACC to ANGC, purchase land nearby, build the only Coore/Doak (or Doak/Coore) course in the world.


Ron:


That's not going to happen, but with $27 million in the bank, they could probably buy a decent piece of ground, and have a course by Bill AND a course by me, and a small clubhouse to go with them.
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 07:28:41 PM »
Quote from: Phil Young on February 27, 2016, 06:33:12 PM
Leave 13 alone... change the par to 4 and it becomes a fantastic risk/reward par-4 as everyone will have to go at it in two.


If "everyone has to go for it in two" it's not really a risk reward hole is it?


and besides, Zach Johnson showed there's another way to make four on it every time.


I seriously doubt they plan to lengthen the hole right away. but rather protect against the Pro V2 and the USGA's next denial
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Peter Pallotta

Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 08:26:23 PM »
An honest question: do folks think that it would be a better golf hole (for the tournament) if it played at 550-560 yards?

Peter
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 08:29:50 PM »
Quote from: Peter Pallotta on February 27, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
An honest question: do folks think that it would be a better golf hole (for the tournament) if it played at 550-560 yards?

Peter




no
i also don't think they plan to do that
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Matt Kardash

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2016, 10:29:12 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on February 27, 2016, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: Peter Pallotta on February 27, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
An honest question: do folks think that it would be a better golf hole (for the tournament) if it played at 550-560 yards?

Peter

no
i also don't think they plan to do that

By that logic, you think the hole is better today than it was decades ago?
I remember watching in the 90s and the hole was about 480 yards or so and it was a driver and maybe a 3-iron. Today it is a 3-wood (which is easier to curve around the corner) and 5 or 6 iron.
I agree that is is obscene to spend that kind of money to lengthen a hole 50 yards for a tournament that takes place one week a year. However, i guess they can do as they please.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 07:34:53 AM by matt kardash »
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MClutterbuck

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 07:59:35 AM »
Quote from: Peter Pallotta on February 27, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
An honest question: do folks think that it would be a better golf hole (for the tournament) if it played at 550-560 yards?

Peter


I do think the hole would benefit from 25 more yards and 10 less trees. I also think something should be done to avoid Bubba and El Pato from going right over the trees and playing a wedge to the green.
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2016, 08:15:55 AM »
Quote from: MClutterbuck on February 29, 2016, 07:59:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Pallotta on February 27, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
An honest question: do folks think that it would be a better golf hole (for the tournament) if it played at 550-560 yards?

Peter


I do think the hole would benefit from 25 more yards and 10 less trees. I also think something should be done to avoid Bubba and El Pato from going right over the trees and playing a wedge to the green.


Bubba would love that.
I'm sure he would struggle with that PW or 9 iron ::) ::) .
Bubba kills it, and curves it.
Unless they put MORE trees in the middle of the fairway he will continue to thrive on the hole.
Your suggestion merely widens his edge
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 10:05:54 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 01:04:26 PM »
I saw that article and at $27 Mill, I don't know how ACC could have turned them down.  How much land are they giving up?  Maybe an acre?
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jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 02:07:25 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 29, 2016, 01:04:26 PM
I saw that article and at $27 Mill, I don't know how ACC could have turned them down.  How much land are they giving up?  Maybe an acre?


agreed and they have the land in the area so even though I would usually object, in this case it can make practical, golf, and $$ sense.
But that's not the number-yet
and it's not a done deal-yet
may take a bit of time for both parties
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Zack Molnar

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2016, 02:33:27 PM »
At $27M, ANGC kinda gave ACC an offer they couldnt refuse. Thats quite a bit of change to have to improve your club.


Does anyone have an estimate as to how big ANGC's coffers are to continue these projects?
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Mike_Young

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 09:18:32 AM »
Zach,
Truth is no one really knows anything about this deal...locally word is that it was closer to 18 mill and hole is already designed and that lots of peeved members at ACC due to fact the negotiations were from 4 ANGC members who were also ACC members..supposedly initial negotiations were 1 million and two passes for each ACC member...after a flat no it went from there....so all are guessing and I doubt anyone knows the depth of ANGC....
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BCowan

Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2016, 09:26:01 AM »
Mike,

    With 18 million the ACC members can have Georgia's own Mike Young design another course. 
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 11:00:27 AM »
Seems to me, ... anything north of $10 mill is a heckava deal.

Yes ANGC has super deep pockets and $10 mill is likely a rounding error for them, but that kind of cheddar could do a ton for 99.99% of clubs on the planet.
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V. Kmetz

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2016, 05:28:08 PM »
Howdy,


I've heard that ACC gets... $1 mil...$10 mil...$15 mil...$27 mil....
[/size]
[/size]And I've heard that ANGC has got it, whatever it is, and that for them, it's "a rounding error"


I've heard construction, expansion, name architects, new clubhouses, and similar for all this "cheddar"


Not once did I hear dues abatement, rebates, employee bonuses, additional staff...


but I guess there's only 20 or so posts, maybe that will come in the next 20...or not.


cheers


vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

jeffwarne

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2016, 05:57:35 PM »
Quote from: V. Kmetz on March 02, 2016, 05:28:08 PM
Howdy,


I've heard that ACC gets... $1 mil...$10 mil...$15 mil...$27 mil....

And I've heard that ANGC has got it, whatever it is, and that for them, it's "a rounding error"


I've heard construction, expansion, name architects, new clubhouses, and similar for all this "cheddar"


Not once did I hear dues abatement, rebates, employee bonuses, additional staff...


but I guess there's only 20 or so posts, maybe that will come in the next 20...or not.


cheers


vk


There's an ongoing negotiation that's not settled yet and may not be this year or next year.
Do you seriously think the club should be releasing how they intend to spend their potential windfall before they even know IF there is one or how much it will be themselves?
the reason you've heard 4 diferent figures is it's not decided yet.


Surely what they do with any realized gains isn't the business of this board anyway......unless it affects their architecture ;D
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 06:14:17 PM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Howard Riefs

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2017, 01:48:13 PM »
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Change A Ross, Change A MacKenzie: Augusta National's 13th and Augusta's 9th
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2017, 01:53:07 PM »
I'm curious as to why they would want to change the 5th hole? Seems to be a pretty tough beast with a wicked cool green as is....
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