England/Wales trip set--- your thoughts

[Wayne Freeman]

  Agree that trying to get on Swinley is worth the effort... loved it.  Also would opt to play 2 rounds
    at Royal Porthcawl the day you are there.

[Bill_McBride]

  Agree that trying to get on Swinley is worth the effort... loved it.  Also would opt to play 2 rounds
    at Royal Porthcawl the day you are there.

Agree on 36 at Porthcawl.  When the Buda was there we played 4 balls in the morning and foursomes after lunch. Fun day, great course. 

[Garland Bayley]

... Somewhere like Saunton stands and falls on its architectural merit to an extent that other more scenic courses don't.

Saunton is clearly a better course than Perranporth but I look forward to playing Perranporth as much or more than any course. ...

I played 15 links courses in Wales and SW England in 2014. I can't see much architectural merit in Saunton East, and consider it the weakest of the lot with it certainly being the least linksy of the lot. Saunton West is better in my and others opinions.


As to Southerdown, I haven't played it, but Tom Doak thinks fairly highly of it (see CG), and when it comes to choosing course critics, I think Doak trumps Coles in Spades.

[Sean_A]

... Somewhere like Saunton stands and falls on its architectural merit to an extent that other more scenic courses don't.

Saunton is clearly a better course than Perranporth but I look forward to playing Perranporth as much or more than any course. ...

I played 15 links courses in Wales and SW England in 2014. I can't see much architectural merit in Saunton East, and consider it the weakest of the lot with it certainly being the least linksy of the lot. Saunton West is better in my and others opinions.


As to Southerdown, I haven't played it, but Tom Doak thinks fairly highly of it (see CG), and when it comes to choosing course critics, I think Doak trumps Coles in Spades.

Using this logic, Doak thinks quite highly of Saunton East and when it comes to choosing course critics, I think Doak trumps Bayley in spades 


Ciao

[Ed Tilley]

... Somewhere like Saunton stands and falls on its architectural merit to an extent that other more scenic courses don't.

Saunton is clearly a better course than Perranporth but I look forward to playing Perranporth as much or more than any course. ...

I played 15 links courses in Wales and SW England in 2014. I can't see much architectural merit in Saunton East, and consider it the weakest of the lot with it certainly being the least linksy of the lot. Saunton West is better in my and others opinions.

I didn't know you weren't a fan of Saunton East Garland - you've kept that to yourself

[James Bennett]

Sorry to interject Mayday - is there anything worth seeing near Poole on the south coast?
I'll possibly play with my nephew somewhere near that they know, so it doesn't really matter if there is nothing within an hour.
If there is, it would be handy to know.  I'm there in 5 weeks or so.

James B

[Adam Lawrence]

Sorry to interject Mayday - is there anything worth seeing near Poole on the south coast?
I'll possibly play with my nephew somewhere near that they know, so it doesn't really matter if there is nothing within an hour.
If there is, it would be handy to know.  I'm there in 5 weeks or so.

James B

Oh God, yeah, when you drive west from Southampton to Bournemouth and Poole on the A31 you see a golfer's wet dream, these huge expanses of open heath. It's probably the second best area of heath golf in the country, after Surrey/Berks. Broadstone is the best imo, Parkstone and Ferndown are very good too. Broadstone is a fascinating place, it has been messed around with and there's a couple of holes that really detract from the experience, but there are other parts of the property that are just stunning, Sunningdale good. The club is working with Frank Pont and has been clearing trees, regenerating heather etc, for a few years now.

[Ed Tilley]

Broadstone is very good. As Adam says, it has a few so so holes but some world class golf too.

Two links below to course tours by Sean Arble and Mark Rowlinson. 7 and 13 are all England candidates - photos from Mark's tour below:

7




13




Link to tours
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37345.msg767195.html#msg767195

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53217.0.html

[James Bennett]

thanks guys - perfect.  Exceeds my expectations.

James B

[Ian Andrew]

Southerndown is vastly over rated by most on this site. Play an extra game at Porthcawl or play Pyle & Kenfig instead, if must play in Wales.

Please ignore this advice - one of my favourites from my Wales adventure.


Mike,

Played everything listed in SW England and Wales.
Your list is perfect and I would not make any adjustments to what you have.

Food in SW is outstanding - make the time to find at least one or two great restaurants

[Tom Birkert]

I would certainly try to play Swinley - you could certainly do it in the PM if you're at St George's Hill in the AM.

Is there a reason you're not doing 36 at Sunningdale one of the days (aside from cost!)?

[Garland Bayley]

...Your list is perfect and I would not make any adjustments to what you have.
...

OK, Ian, I will try you. My reaction to Saunton East was that I couldn't see anything special there. I felt I could get a similar experience on any number of courses back home. I thought Saunton West was better. Of course the one missing element from my trip there was wind, but I can't imagine struggling with the place in the wind.


The reactions I get from others about Saunton East is that if I can't see what's special about it, then they aren't going to waste their time trying to educate me. So are you willing to take the time to try to educate me?

[Ian Andrew]

OK, Ian, I will try you. My reaction to Saunton East was that I couldn't see anything special there. I felt I could get a similar experience on any number of courses back home. I thought Saunton West was better. Of course the one missing element from my trip there was wind, but I can't imagine struggling with the place in the wind.

The reactions I get from others about Saunton East is that if I can't see what's special about it, then they aren't going to waste their time trying to educate me. So are you willing to take the time to try to educate me?

I share your opinion, I was also left flat by Saunton East
There are some good bits and aspects that I don't get

But its well liked by others that I assume this is a me problem
It's a great site for golf...

I far preferred Burnham and Barrow, more my taste in architecture

[Garland Bayley]

I played 15 links courses in Wales and SW England in 2014. I can't see much architectural merit in Saunton East, and consider it the weakest of the lot with it certainly being the least linksy of the lot. Saunton West is better in my and others opinions.


As to Southerdown, I haven't played it, but Tom Doak thinks fairly highly of it (see CG), and when it comes to choosing course critics, I think Doak trumps Coles in Spades.

Using this logic, Doak thinks quite highly of Saunton East and when it comes to choosing course critics, I think Doak trumps Bayley in spades 


Ciao

I share your opinion, I was also left flat by Saunton East
There are some good bits and aspects that I don't get
...

Yes, but the Andrew/Bayley combination has a better chance of standing up against Doak. 


I sometimes wonder is Saunton East is continuing to rest on the kudos from MacKenzie in The Spirit of Saint Andrews.
Are we seeing a course anything like what AM saw back in his day?

[Dan Boerger]

Mike - Wonderful lineup ... in addition to trying to get on Swinley, you might also consider the close by New Zealand.


Great time of year to go.

[John Mayhugh]

My reaction to Saunton East was that I couldn't see anything special there. I felt I could get a similar experience on any number of courses back home.

I played Saunton East twice, but haven't played the West.

Saunton East lacks some of the uniqueness and charm that we associate with English courses.  It's plenty challenging, but maybe not quite fun enough.  I couldn't argue with anyone that rates it highly - lots of really good par 4s, but it's not nearly as memorable as St. Enodoc or Westward Ho!  I think that hurts it with some visitors.

The green complexes work well, but do so in a low key way.

The course does have one of the most creative uses of out of bounds that I have seen. I think it's worth a visit just to see the 11th hole. 

[mike_malone]

We have switched from Saunton to Westward Ho

[Bill_McBride]

Mike - Wonderful lineup ... in addition to trying to get on Swinley, you might also consider the close by New Zealand.


Great time of year to go.

100% agree about New Zealand, it's a charming course with a surprising number of very tough par 4s. 

[Joe Hancock]

So, you go to Wales to see New Zealand, and you go to New Zealand to see whales....who knew?

[Ed Tilley]

We have switched from Saunton to Westward Ho

Mike,

Where and when are you actually staying? Humour us please - an Englishman is never happier than when talking about football, the weather, or travel logistics. The perils of travelling to the west country in the summer could keep us occupied for many hours. Cheers,

Ed

[Thomas Dai]

Oh yes, the M5. Wonderful place to spend a few hours on a Saturday in the summer!


New Zealand is in England Joe, but if you're tall enough I guess you could see NZ whales from New South Wales.


Mention of NZ and Wales, splendid - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v1NS05qlEcM - shame the result is soooo predictable. Lions tour in 2017 though so hopefully a combination of blokes usually seen in green or dark blue and the boyo's in red will achieve something for the first time in over fourty years. Doubt the whites will contribute much!



Atb

[Rhydian Lewis]

Mike

Not played Saunton East but Westward Ho / Royal North Devon is a must play imo when in the area. The most rugged, natural and made from nature links I have played on. It's maybe somewhat of an aquired taste but if you like links golf in it's purest form you'll love it. I can guarentee you'll not forget 'The Cape Bunker' on the 4th, and the small yet fascinating golfing museum in the club house is worth the entry fee alone!!

I've a vested interest in the place and as a result maybe a slightly biased opinion, as we are working with the course on a bunker project, but for me you've made absolutely the right decision to work it into your trip. This is golf in the raw!!

[Rhydian Lewis]

Oh and some local knowledge re. Southerndown Vs Pyle n Kenfig I live 10 mins from both (and 15 from Royal porthcawl) and although I've been a member of Southerndown which is a solid  course with a.stunning view from the 1st tee the majority of golfers in this area would rank PnK above it. Greens are better, the back 9 in particular set in some.spectacular rolling sand dunes is on a par with the more esteemed Royal and nothing Southerndown offers can quite match it though again it is a good golf course with a few outstanding holes.

One major drawback is the sheep and accompanying sheep s*#t but apart from that then general quality of golf holes and course doesn't quite match the more spectacular back 9 of PnK imo and the majority of golfers in the area.

If you're looking for a break from links courses you could try 'The Rolls of Monmouth' a beautiful parkland course which is a real favourite of mine and has a clubhouse which originally housed the production plant for rolls Royce engines. Pretty spectacular! Ross on Wye is also a really enjoyable parkland course and Newport / Rogerston is another which would not need quite the same amount of drive time as the previous 2 but probably not quite in the same league.

If you are.looking for an extra 1 to make up a 4 or would like some local knowledge reading the greens, let me know.

If you are staying local then check out 'Frolicks' restaurant 'near Southerndown. The Pelican literally at the bottom.of the hill from Southerndown is a must if you play there a really good little pub as is the rose and crown in Porthcawl and if you want to experience a informal night of traditional welsh choir singing then The Tillers.in Llangynwyd is not to be missed. Every Friday night you'll find local choir men enjoying a few ales and a sing. Its brilliant, you'll get an incredibly warm welcome and its only 25 mins from porthcawl,.southerndown and PnK. The Old house is also a fantastic pub / restaurant and also in Llangynwyd and if you want detailed.local knowledge tillers is bottom llan and old house is top llan!

Enjoy and Croeso!!

[mike_malone]

Rhydian
Great stuff. I will be in touch.

[Garland Bayley]

Mike

Not played Saunton East but Westward Ho / Royal North Devon is a must play imo when in the area. The most rugged, natural and made from nature links I have played on. It's maybe somewhat of an aquired taste but if you like links golf in it's purest form you'll love it. I can guarentee you'll not forget 'The Cape Bunker' on the 4th, and the small yet fascinating golfing museum in the club house is worth the entry fee alone!!

I've a vested interest in the place and as a result maybe a slightly biased opinion, as we are working with the course on a bunker project, but for me you've made absolutely the right decision to work it into your trip. This is golf in the raw!!

Not to mention that Tom Doak has put the ninth on his list of templates he would like to build.