[Marty Bonnar]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/whitekirk-golf-club-will-reopen-insists-boss-1-4025743

[Tom_Doak]

Bad news that it's been closed?  Or that it's reopening? 

[Ken Moum]

Is it really bad news.  I have driven by there, without playing I admit, and couldn't imagine how it could EVER survive when there was actual good links golf so easily accessible.


I did ask about it locally and never got anything back that made me tempted to play it.

[Marty Bonnar]

Bad news that it's been closed?  Or that it's reopening?

I'll leave you to make up your own mind. Played it once, nothing out of this world, but a few interesting holes. Sited, as it is, in fairly rarified company, it was always going to be a hard sell.
Believe it was placed for a minor redesign.
Just bad news for staff, members, etc...

F.

[JJShanley]

Bad news for the staff, yes.


Members, however, could make the shortish drive to The Glen, which while not in the rarified company you mention, still beats Whitekirk, based on my round there in June 2000.


Full disclosure: I took out a membership at The Glen for six months in 2009-10 during a period back in Edinburgh.  I haven't played there since, but I always enjoyed it.  I'd worry if The Glen experiences such problems. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Whitekirk was an okay course with good views and a decent atmosphere in the clubhouse. It was in decent nick when I played it a few years back. Yes it is close to many very good courses but having spoken to many locals in my time spent there many prefer inland courses over the links ones. I met one person who is a member at both North Berwick  and Royal Mussleburgh who plays the latter 10 times to his on round at NB.

The article says it will reopen and no where does it say it is due to finances.

Jon

[Niall C]

I’m disappointed to hear that Whitekirk has closed if only temporarily. I played it a number of times and I think it is/was a better course than a lot on here give credit for. Can’t help but think there is a bit of snobbishness about some of the comments on here. Yes, it’s not a links and is always going to suffer in comparison to NB, Gullane or where ever. However there was still some good golf with some really nice holes considering the challenging terrain.

I recall at one point they were talking about a second course on the flatter land across the road but that was pre-credit crunch.
 
Niall

[Simon Holt]

Whitekirk (opened around 1999) and relatively more recently, Craigielaw (2000ish), were both built at a time when it took around 5-14 years to get into most of the storied clubs in the area as a full member, and I don't include HCEG in that obviously.  There was a demand for golf membership in East Lothian driven by the Edinburgh market that wasn't being satisfied by the constraints of membership quotas.


When 2008 happened these clubs did really well to stay the course but as most of the members were using them as a stop gap until they were "in" at the likes of Gullane, North Berwick, Kilspindie and Luffness, we are now seeing a resetting of the market.  If that is indeed the main source of the problem then there is hope for Whitekirk's resurrection.  Waiting lists are on the up again with North Berwick now back over 4 years wait for a full member.  The North Berwick list never went below a year and I believe Gullane went as "low" as 4 years wait......it was 14 years at one point.


As you can tell this is a micro problem not a macro one for all of golf.  East Lothian is a heartland of the game where there is more at work than the usual market forces.

[JJShanley]

Simon:


Did The Glen exist in a vacuum within East Lothian, where members there didn't ever move to NB, etc.?  I'd rather play there than either Craigielaw (my father's course) or Whitekirk (which I played once.)

[Tom_Doak]

Can’t help but think there is a bit of snobbishness about some of the comments on here.

Niall:


No snobbishness meant from my post; I was just commenting on the oddity of Martin's original post, which asked if it was "bad news" when the linked headline was that the course would reopen.


I have never seen Whitekirk, or else it would be in The Confidential Guide and you'd know what I thought of it.  I stopped in once with the intent of looking around, but it was a quite busy day, and it didn't look like it was possible to look around safely, at least on the holes around the clubhouse.  Is the course as tight as it looked to me?

[Niall C]

Tom


Point taken although in mitigation I wasn't targeting you.


Re the course, as you know it plays up, over and around a hill. Inevitably that means a few climbs and some sidehill lies although from memory (it has been a few years since I've been there) there's no brutal treks up really steep hills (well at least not compared to Gullane 2 and 3). I've never found the course tight and indeed its roomier than a lot of courses I've played but then my taste re width tends to be a bit different than a lot of others on here.


The only bits that I can think are narrow are where the gca has used the topography or "natural" feature to create a pinch point. One instance is a longish par 4 or maybe par 5 (from memory) where the last 80 yards of the hole has a pond running hard along the right side including hard against the green. A neat way of narrowing the approach. Not rocket science but keeps the big hitters honest. That was one of only two holes that had water. Overall maybe not a really great course but far from a clunker IMO.


Niall

[Niall C]

Simon


Interesting comment on waiting lists. Over this way, I believe some of the average clubs are still looking for joining fees even though you can more or less join immediately. At others, including my own there is still a waiting list but just not as long as in the heyday pre-credit crunch. What is noticeable is that there is much more of a turn over of members and not just because someone has died or moved abroad.


JJ


In comparing the Glen with Whitekirk and Craigielaw you are comparing an old fashioned and fairly short traditional course with two longer modern courses. A bit like apples and oranges. All three have merit in my opinion.


Niall

[Simon Holt]

JJ,


The Glen was established in 1906.  It has a 100 year jump on the other courses we have mentioned but yes, from time to time it has gone through its financial troubles.  Many of the North Berwick locals would have been members of both the Glen and the West, certainly growing up as kids, then would opt to drop the Glen when they had to pay adult prices. 


The same could be said of a recession.  If you were to lose one membership out of the two due to finances then the Glen would be the choice for any hardcore golfer that could still afford the annuals at the West.


I love the banter at the Glen and its a beautiful walk.  The clubhouse has honest food and a view that is hard to beat; it merely serves a different clientele to the West so they can co-exist in the same small town quite comfortably.  It does a good level of visitor trade at it's price point which is half of the green fee at the West, so proves very popular with the domestic travelling golfer, the euros and the bargain hunters.


I was a member as a kid since it was over my parents back wall but as soon as I went to University I dropped it.  I enjoy going back from time to time.  While my parents still live there I am in Edinburgh with young kids - if I'm making the drive down then its going to be for the West 100 times out of 100.


Says the man on his way to New Zealand to play golf......


As an aside, and please prove me wrong, is German food the least inspiring in the world?  In Frankfurt airport and the culinary delights extend to Currywurst and eggplant stew.  Angela Moser, please prove me wrong!

[Jon Wiggett]

Simon,

good to see you back again. Whitekirk was opened in 1995 I believe and I would take it over Craigielaw any day. I also do not think it is so far behind the Glen which has a lot of really good holes but quite a few mundane ones as well. I suspect it will be up and running soon.

Jon

[Bill_McBride]

Bad news for the staff, yes.


Members, however, could make the shortish drive to The Glen, which while not in the rarified company you mention, still beats Whitekirk, based on my round there in June 2000.


Full disclosure: I took out a membership at The Glen for six months in 2009-10 during a period back in Edinburgh.  I haven't played there since, but I always enjoyed it.  I'd worry if The Glen experiences such problems.

Enjoyed the Glen during my first trip to Scotland. Yes some dodgy holes but loved the 18th hole.  Knocked my drive into the back door of the clubhouse, yikes!

[Angela Moser]

JJ,

As an aside, and please prove me wrong, is German food the least inspiring in the world?  In Frankfurt airport and the culinary delights extend to Currywurst and eggplant stew.  Angela Moser, please prove me wrong!

Oh dear!!! Where did you find that and why would eat it? If you want to try a Currywurst you should go to Curry 36 on Mehringdamm in Kreuzberg. It is the epitomy of Berlin Currywurst.
[/size]
Next time, be my guest and visit Munich!

Kulturbanause!!!

[Simon Holt]

Philistine indeed!


To be fair I was just provoking a reaction.  It was in the Lufthansa lounge at Frankfurt airport, so hardly the culinary centre of Germany.  They did have a 2 draught beer taps that you could just help yourself at that which more than made up for the bad Currywurst.

[Michael Graham]

JJ,

As an aside, and please prove me wrong, is German food the least inspiring in the world?  In Frankfurt airport and the culinary delights extend to Currywurst and eggplant stew.  Angela Moser, please prove me wrong!

Oh dear!!! Where did you find that and why would eat it? If you want to try a Currywurst you should go to Curry 36 on Mehringdamm in Kreuzberg. It is the epitomy of Berlin Currywurst.
[/size]
Next time, be my guest and visit Munich!

Kulturbanause!!!

Curry 36 is good but it's no Konnopke's at Eberswalder Strasse U Bahnhof. 

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