'Stadium' par-3 16th at TPC Scottsdale - good or bad？

[Steve Salmen]

I played TPC Stadium 1/19 of this year. The golf course exceeded my expectations. It was fun and fair. The grandstands were up, as was the stadium at 16.  #17 is one great short par 4.

[Andy Shulman]

The amphitheater and the rowdy crowd makes an otherwise ordinary hole one of the most memorable on Tour.  What's not to like about that?  It'd be even better if more of the pros played to the crowd.

[Carl Rogers]

Let's say this hole is Step One in getting someone interested in the game.....
Step Two would be Top Golf???
Then what?

[V. Kmetz]

Hello,


The question was asked, otherwise I wouldn't have a specific answer... How could it possibly matter to me? But since posed, here is that answer.


In every other way, except those I'm going to bullet, this "thing" is fine by me...


1. I do not like, nor approve of, this growing idea that the "fans are part of the action" - and certainly not in this hyper-extreme manner. At all sorts of sporting events, this is ever more the case... and its bad. I want to see the performers at their maximum, not what a yahoo can do to influence or register with the outcome.


2. This is different than the experience of storming the court or running out onto the field...most of those times, the game is over...go nuts then.


3. I wish this "Red Hour" for golf would do more to help excise the drunken zeal at other events, but it doesn't and this set-up just gives that little bit more license for those fans at other tour events to try and be a determining factor in the action....more "You Da' Mans" "BaBa Booeys" and so forth...


4. This endorses a mob mentality that isn't right for viewing individual sport...wherein the competitors are not vying for the same ball and concentration is fundamental act of performing to one's best.


5. I hate that it advances the idea that, "whatever makes more money must be good"


I know Golf has been plagued by these fan incursions at many times throughout its history, but this is one of the first venues where it is actively encouraged by the tournament itself. Dan Hicks was fed the line..."the gladiatorial arena" and it's so ironic that we don't reflect on that beyond the pablum prose of it.


Alas, I really don't care...I'm never going there...and any full-on impacts to the golf I watch will probably not be felt until my eyes are closed...yet it's why I've got so much material for my 2029 book..."Why $ports $tink"


cheers


vk

[Kalen Braley]

V. Kemtz

At the risk of winning crotchety crusty of the month...

I agree with your last post, especially the 1st three points.

P.S.  While I'm watching this tournament, I'm noticing the caddies are frequently telling the crowd to be please quiet on all the other holes....why should the 16th be any different?

[Kalen Braley]

P.S.  And what's up with the xenophobic U-S-A chants at the 16th hole???

FFS, what an embarrassment..

[Declan Kavanagh]

I agree with the USA chants.  Unnecessary.  Cheer for Rickie. 


Overall I think the hole is good for golf.  Once a year why not.

[BHoover]

P.S.  And what's up with the xenophobic U-S-A chants at the 16th hole???

FFS, what an embarrassment..

Unlike some on this board, Shane Lowrey took it in stride and had fun with the chants.

Lighten up, man.

[Jeff Shelman]

I went to the WMPO a couple of years ago. I don't know that I ever need to go back.

The amount of booze being consumed there is amazing (and probably not in a good way).

The only think I could compare it to would be the infield at the Kentucky Derby.

It's certainly a spectacle.

[John McCarthy]

I think one hole once a year is good, different and fun. 

I looped in the BMW Championship pro-am last fall.  There were several of these structures built for corporate boxed seating.  The 17th is a downhill par 3 surrounded by boxes.  It had a very claustrophobic feel - and there were hardly anyone there due to it being a Wednesday.  The green was almost entirely shaded by the stands - I wonder how they grew grass. 

The 18th also was surrounded by the boxes.  The course itself is pretty wide open and it made for quite a contrast. 

After my loop I retired to a box over the ninth green.  Food and drink were secured and it was fun bsing with old friends, telling caddieyard stories and watching folks finish their rounds.  Brian Doyle Murray even pitched in from about 40 yards! 

Would I like to play under those conditions?  I would be a wreck.  But the die has been cast and I hope they keep it in AZ only.

[David Davis]

While I wouldn't want to see it all events I think it's a great marketing stunt and clearly fits in perfectly with the local crowd.


I don't buy into the don't talk in my backswing excuse. I'm sorry, these guys are professional athletes and this is one of the few times the crowd can influence positively or negatively what they are doing and it's deemed ok to do so. Definitely good for adding excitement to an otherwise dull and boring sport to watch. (though that's clearly not my view of the sport, for the record). I also used to think golf on TV was a great reason to take a nap in-between Lawrence Welk and All in the Family. Before I played of course. However, this didn't exist then. It also keeps guys like Bubba in check perhaps, of course you are fair game to say what you want but then next day you get to hear what the fans think of your remarks.


I noticed I had an old high school buddy on Facebook that golfs but once in a while posting videos from a box there and super excited about it. That's pretty cool and yes, great for golf to the masses.


I hope they all come join this great game because of it. But on the other hand also hope I'm playing at a different club when they do. ;-)

[Thomas Dai]

Looking at aerial photos of the now virtually entirely enclosed stadium 16th hole I'm surprised that some of the grandstands arn't double sided, ie enabling spectators to view play on the island par-5 15th green and the driveable par-4 17th and a couple of other greens that pretty close by. And a few big screens showing play elsewhere on the course as well. The future maybe?



Atb

[Bill_McBride]

This stadium hole is a short-iron par-3.


Would the playing and spectating etc experience be 'enhanced', if that's the correct word, if the hole in question were a short, driveable risk-and-reward type par-4?


Atb

It's interesting to note that the 17th green also has big stadium style grandstands now.  The course has become a big video game!

[JJShanley]

I think the R&A should have something similar for the 8th at Troon this year.  But only spectators wearing the appropriate blazer and tie could get access.  G&Ts served, rather than Bud Light.  Polite applause for a shot hit close.  Tut-tutting if a player misses the green.

[Dave Givnish]

Thomas - The stands on the north side of the hole afford a tremendous view of the entire course from the third level, and a great view of 15 green from the lower level. You really can't see much action unless you're in the seats right behind the players or around the green.


Sand - Joe Passov tweeted about those. They are pretty stark but I guess the TV people think they show up better on screen.


The Thunderbirds have done a fantastic job raising money for charities in the Phoenix area, and it seems like they're having a hell of a time doing it. The Family Day event on Monday is going to do a lot more to grow the game than the 200K+ that went on Saturday.


It's fun. It's different. And it fills the hotels and restaurants.

[Jim Hoak]

I'm bringing this subject of #17 at TPC Scottsdale up in light of the results from yesterday.
Is this a great hole?  Or is it even good?  Or is it even fair?
It obviously determined the outcome of the Phoenix Open yesterday with Koepka making an eagle at the opportune time.  But then you see someone like Spieth having his ball roll off from the middle of the green into the water, after seemingly being on a good line,
I would argue that it is very good hole--in a risk/reward sense and given where it comes in a round.  There may be a degree of unfairness in the outcome, but that is the price to pay for going for a key score at a key time.  I can't think of more holes with as much drama to the outcome of a tournament.

[Kalen Braley]

16 is the short par 3...did you mean 17?

[Jim Hoak]

Ugh!  I sure did.  I tried to go back and pick up an old thread--and I misread it.
Any thoughts on #17?

[Pat Burke]

I'd say other than Pat Burke....

none of us will have this problem!!   

Pat, the floor is now yours to chime in !

I just saw this. Sorry Kalen


I faked hitting it on a Friday and all the drunks were screaming “ GO IN THE HOLE!”


I hadn’t even hit it


I got booed
A nd even a Burke sucks!!


Then hit a good shot and made birdie


It was may 1992.  I only missed the cut by 6. (Or more). 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

The 16th is a lame hole. So if the stadium makes it at least worth a conversation, then… good?

The 17th doesn't need "dressing up." The 16th does.

[Kalen Braley]

I'd say other than Pat Burke....

none of us will have this problem!!   

Pat, the floor is now yours to chime in !

I just saw this. Sorry Kalen

I faked hitting it on a Friday and all the drunks were screaming “ GO IN THE HOLE!”

I hadn’t even hit it

I got booed
A nd even a Burke sucks!!

Then hit a good shot and made birdie

It was may 1992.  I only missed the cut by 6. (Or more). 

Pat,

Thanks for sharing...eventually.  Terrific story!! 

P.S.  I've always wondered why Tiger hasn't played this tourney much.  It has plenty of space to miss and still attack the greens and no doubt he was the best at blocking out distractions from rowdy fans and such.  Seems this venue and environment would be right in his wheelhouse.

[Matt_Cohn]

P.S.  I've always wondered why Tiger hasn't played this tourney much.  It has plenty of space to miss and still attack the greens and no doubt he was the best at blocking out distractions from rowdy fans and such.  Seems this venue and environment would be right in his wheelhouse.

I believe he had a concerning experience with security one of the years that he did play, or something to that effect. He played a few years ago during his chipping yips period, though.

[Andrew Harvie]

I'm bringing this subject of #17 at TPC Scottsdale up in light of the results from yesterday.
Is this a great hole?  Or is it even good?  Or is it even fair?
It obviously determined the outcome of the Phoenix Open yesterday with Koepka making an eagle at the opportune time.  But then you see someone like Spieth having his ball roll off from the middle of the green into the water, after seemingly being on a good line,
I would argue that it is very good hole--in a risk/reward sense and given where it comes in a round.  There may be a degree of unfairness in the outcome, but that is the price to pay for going for a key score at a key time.  I can't think of more holes with as much drama to the outcome of a tournament.

Typically, 30 yard hooks landing on the downslope don't stop for a long time

[archie_struthers]

 


I'll just comment on the theater. It fits at a semi raucous event like Phoenix. Fun in the sun and all! Wouldn't want to see it as a fixture at a bunch of tournaments, let Phoenix have it and enjoy it for what it is.

[Jeff Schley]

I have never attended the Phoenix Open, but quite a few of my friends did when they were single. Most wore sunglasses to check out the scenery in the crowd around the 16th hole. 

BTW one met his wife in the grandstands there in the early 2000's, as I guess it exudes "romance"?