[Thomas Dai]

There is quite a bit of chat about how far the ball goes, potential ball roll backs, how courses are too long, tee it forward etc but would you still carry on playing if your tee shot suddenly went no further than 150 yards?


Is hitting a long ball one of the reasons you play?



Would the game become very boring to you very quickly?


Would you be able to mentally tolerate needing to hit at least a driver and then a fairway metal to reach a green less than 300 yds away?


If you'd give up if you couldn't hit a driver more than 150 yds what yardage would still keep you playing?


Just curious.


Atb

[Tom_Doak]

Thomas:


Senior golfers make these decisions every day, but the loss of length is incremental rather than all at once, and it's rarely so much at once that they feel like quitting.


I would guess that if most players could suddenly only hit it 150 yards, they would find most courses too difficult, and there would be a lot of demand to redesign courses to accommodate the short hitters before they all decided to quit the game.

[Joe Zucker]

Thomas,  for me it depends on how the ball flies.  If the new "150 yard" ball still flies with a trajectory and movement similar to how the current ball flies, I would definitely keep playing.  But if the new ball flies like bunted 3 wood, then I would get bored.


The spin we impart on the ball and the various options it gives the golfer make the game fun every time I tee it up.  If the nature of the game is preserved with a restricted flight ball, I think I could get used to a scaled down version in time.


Edit: I'm assuming golf courses were built/altered to accommodate shorter yardages.  If a great course were shrunk by 50% so that the strategy was there as intended, I think  a shorter ball would still be fun.

[Paul Jones]

I think 150 yards is way too short.  No one would be able to play 16th at Cypress Point.  I could see drivers maxing out at 250, but not 150.

[Michael Graham]

To quote the Nike commercial, "Chicks dig the long ball". I'm not sure how much fun I'd have standing on the tee dreaming of sending one out there all of 150 yards.

[Peter Pallotta]

I don't know how I'd feel about or answer that Thomas.


I do know that on the golf course I experience yardages more in relative than in absolute terms, while on the range it is the opposite.


Peter

[Jon Wiggett]

Thomas,

in reality reducing the distance that a ball goes would effect the longest players the most and the average player very little. Sure the 'flat bellies' (as Sean would put it) would see their drives go from 280/300 yards down to 250/260 yards but the average player would only see a change in the realms of 230/240 yards down to 220/230. Shortening the ball is the most straight forward and inexpensive way to go and I suspect would be more readily accepted by both golfers and the industry than many might expect.

All we need is for the governing bodies to find the courage to take this step.

Jon

[Jeff_Brauer]

Geez, give me 5 more years of lost distance, and I will tell you.


However, as I reduced from 250-260 to more like 225 on typical days, I had an initial dislike of golf, but gradually adapted and got used to it.  I figure the same will happen in the next ten years, too.  It all depends on your broader outlook on life.

[Patrick_Mucci]

There is quite a bit of chat about how far the ball goes, potential ball roll backs, how courses are too long, tee it forward etc but would you still carry on playing if your tee shot suddenly went no further than 150 yards?

YES................   especially since I'm getting closer and closer to 150 yards


Is hitting a long ball one of the reasons you play?



Would the game become very boring to you very quickly?

The game actually became more fun in terms of the challenge when I couldn't hit the ball as far as I did in the past because I had to account for many features that I had been able to ignore in the past.

I had to get more course "savy" as I tacked my way from tee to green.

Would you be able to mentally tolerate needing to hit at least a driver and then a fairway metal to reach a green less than 300 yds away?

I did previously, and I could do it again.

But, let's not forget that length is one of the primary challenges and goals.

One of the great things about aging without physical or mental impediments is that the loss of distance tends to be gradual.

You tend to both reject and accept that fact.

And, you adjust as it becomes a harsh reality.

If you'd give up if you couldn't hit a driver more than 150 yds what yardage would still keep you playing?

Haven't you noticed really old guys playing golf together.

At a club that I'm very familiar with there's a standing foursome of guys, all of whom are over 90.

Big hitters they're not, but, they love the game and play as best they can.

What you're missing is one of the great attributes of golf............. the handicap system.

If they shoot 110, and they have a 40 handicap, you'd better play your best if you want to beat them.

Your question, while valid, focuses solely on the physical aspect of the game, ball striking and distance, not scoring and handicap.

Yes, we all want to hit the "long ball", but father time and injuries often eliminate that from our games.

Still, the lure and love of the game are there.

Remember, it's how many, not how !


Just curious.

Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think 150 yards is way too short. 

No one would be able to play 16th at Cypress Point. 

Not True.

From the forward, back tee, it's only a 110 yard carry.

From the forward, forward tee, it's only an 80 yard carry

I could see drivers maxing out at 250, but not 150.

Who carries their drives 250 ?

Certainly not you or the guys you play with

[Bob Montle]

I'm glad you asked this question because I've had a chance to experience it recently.

I like to play 9 after work, teeing off around 4:30 to 4:45, but with darkness coming shortly after 5pm I was losing too many balls in the dark.
The solution was night-flyer golf balls.  They light up when hit and stay lit for about 8 minutes.

I discovered a whole new world of golf enjoyment, playing from the ladies tees.
Wedges carry about 10% less.  155 yd 6-irons now only go145.  175 yd 4-hybrids only go about 160.  3 woods go 170,  Driver goes 175 on a really good strike, 150 on a mishit.

The par 4's holes that used to be driver/7 iron become driver/wood/wedge.
Amazingly, my score only went up by 2 to 3 strokes per nine.

The modern clubs become less forgiving.  You need a smooth tempo swing to get good distance and roll is minimal.  A tactical plan of attack becomes more important because as distance decreases so do lateral errors.  A duffer like me can aim for a side of a fairway instead of just trying to keep it out of the trees.

I imagine it must be somewhat like play with gutties.   I love it!

[Bob Montle]

Thomas,

in reality reducing the distance that a ball goes would effect the longest players the most and the average player very little. Sure the 'flat bellies' (as Sean would put it) would see their drives go from 280/300 yards down to 250/260 yards but the average player would only see a change in the realms of 230/240 yards down to 220/230. Shortening the ball is the most straight forward and inexpensive way to go and I suspect would be more readily accepted by both golfers and the industry than many might expect.

All we need is for the governing bodies to find the courage to take this step.

Jon

AMEN!!   Agreed 100%   

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks all for your thoughts.


Two recent threads have concentrated on very short par-3's and very short par-4's and as there were many complimentary comments about them I got to wondering about playing these kind of holes with a very short hitting ball but then I wondered if a lack of hitting distance factor would force some folk out of the game.


I therefore like Bobs story of playing with night balls and how they knock off distance.


Anyone ever played golf with a squash ball, which is hollow, ultra-soft/squeezable and very similar in size to a golf ball?


I have. It doesn't go very far but is still fun, well apart from mainly coming in the colour black so not so easy to find! But it's still fun and it's still essentially 'golf'......and if an errant shot catches you somewhere delicate it's not very likely to do much damage. Controllable around the greens as well.


Whilst some Young Bucks may like the thrill of bombing a long tee ball, the average age of club members is around 60 years old (in the UK). The general tendency however, is to make courses longer, which is the exact opposite of what I'd reckon folks of 60-ish would want, irrespective of the handicap system.


Atb

[Greg Taylor]

[size=78%]Everyone loves hitting a big drive. Taking away that enjoyment would drive people away from the game and we'd all be being Titleists on the dark web. Why use a ball that goes 220 when you could hit one that goes 250?[/size]



It's never going to happen.


We on this site represent 0.5% of the golfing population. We're a niche.

[Phil Young]

Thomas,

I'm still recovering from my second cervical spinal fusion and I can't wait to be able to swing a club without my arms going numb on me regardless of how far the ball goes. That's what forward tees are for. Golf is a game of personal challenge and all who play it throughout their lives face varying points where the challenges that they were used to must be changed. For some it comes after much practice and great improvements while for others it comes from physical declines causing a reduction in abilities. What always remains is the joy one gets when a challenge is met regardless of the distance involved or age/health status of the player...

[Sean_A]

ATB

If I could only hit the ball 150 yards it would greatly reduce the enjoyment of the game simply because so many of the courses I play are not accomodating to that length of tee shot and/or the required second.  Think about it, 275 yards is now a loooong hole.  130 yard par 3s are now very looong.  My choices for courses where I can actually enjoy the game would be drastically reduced.  Bottom line, courses would have to be redesigned if the 150 yard plague hit.  Courses would have to be well under 5000 yards.  I spose with all that extra land the clubs could sell it for housing  or maybe create 36 hole properties.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

I used to hit the ball as far as anyone back in the 80s but I still think over 240 carry was rare then. After a car crash I now hit it 190-200 yards in the air, I can hit Driver 3 wood to a hole my playing partners hit Driver Wedge. I would say it has ruined it for me, but I suppose if it was the same for everyone it might not be so.


They tried reduced distance courses with the Cayman Ball about 30-40 years, it never worked.


I think a big part of golf is giving it a good old whack off the tee. So remove that and..........


It IMO just needs a 10% reduction on the ball to bring the 7700 yarders back to 7000. Par 5s at 630 to stop people in 2 need to be back at 560 but only for the pros.

[Thomas Dai]

There are lots of reasons to play the game.....fun perhaps firstly, but also aspects like fresh air, exercise, friendships, self-challenge, competition, architecture, travel, getting away from the other half and the kids! etc etc etc, ........but is hitting a long shot so important that if you couldn't hit a long drive you'd give up the game?

Is there not much more to golf than that?

Ever been to a long drive contest? Pretty boring after a while. Ever stood at the back of a practice green and watched the likes of Seve or Phil Mickelson chip and pitch and play bunker shots? That's anything but boring.

But to go back my original enquiry, given that folk can always 'tee it forward' - and the outcome that would have is commented upon herein fairly regularly - what driver yardage would still keep you playing?

atb

[Carl Rogers]

Would the market start to expand for non-conforming clubs whose COR would be much higher than USGA legal?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thomas - My great uncle has been round Saunton in 61 with a 5 at the 10th he was +1 at his best, he caddied for me if I played Saunton but I only got to play with him once when he was quite old and his handicap was 16 and he could not hit any par 4 in two shots I remember thinking I would have given up, shortly after he did. I think he started to get frustrated. 30 years on I am a bit like him, I would say around a 9 hole par 3 course I am as good as anyone. Off the tee I am crap. Hitting it a long way is a big part of golf it is frustrating when you can't. Frank Stranahan had started hitting shots again at 86, 200 yards was his limit, yet he could still lift big weights. I got a lovely video of him but whilst he was still working out twice a week you could still see his swing was restrictive.

[Niall C]

Adrian


The fact that Tom Watson spends more time stretching than practising probably speaks volumes. I'm not exactly entering into my dotage but I'm also frustrated that I can't hit as far as I once did even though I was never a big hitter. Believe it or not I can't help thinking that technology is the problem as it's near impossible to buy a club that hasn't got a high MOI (I think that's the jargon) such that I now get more run on my old ping eye 2 wedge than I do my new ping G30 driver.


So here's the thing, do you not think that we should be designing shorter courses for the majority of golfers who are hitting it shorter notwithstanding all the flatbelly's who are supposedly getting the benefit out of modern equipment ?


Niall

[Paul Jones]

I think 150 yards is way too short. 

No one would be able to play 16th at Cypress Point. 

Not True.

From the forward, back tee, it's only a 110 yard carry.

From the forward, forward tee, it's only an 80 yard carry

I could see drivers maxing out at 250, but not 150.

Who carries their drives 250 ?

Certainly not you or the guys you play with

Pat,

When I played CPC, I was playing with a College Golfer and 2 Head Golf Pros - we all hit Driver except College kid hit 3 wood.  I do not remember seeing the forward tees, but I feel one should be able to reach a green from the tee on a par 3, not just carry the hazard - but then again - I don't remember seeing the forward tees.

I was referring to everyone maxing out at 250 - not necessarily carrying it 250.
P.S. - I can carry my drive 250 yards

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian


The fact that Tom Watson spends more time stretching than practising probably speaks volumes. I'm not exactly entering into my dotage but I'm also frustrated that I can't hit as far as I once did even though I was never a big hitter. Believe it or not I can't help thinking that technology is the problem as it's near impossible to buy a club that hasn't got a high MOI (I think that's the jargon) such that I now get more run on my old ping eye 2 wedge than I do my new ping G30 driver.


So here's the thing, do you not think that we should be designing shorter courses for the majority of golfers who are hitting it shorter notwithstanding all the flatbelly's who are supposedly getting the benefit out of modern equipment ?


Niall

Niall - I kinda tried that with The Stranahan. For every 7 visits, 6 play the 7000 yarder and 1 plays the 5500 yarder. The problem with new courses is that they need to be special and good in today's market to compete. Short courses are not special and good in enough eyes and I think most developers realise that and pop for 7200 yards Par 72, 9th back to the house kinda thing. The problems with getting old and hitting it less distance just takes away the chance for some. In 2009 we might have had the greatest sports story ever a 59 year old man won the Open Championship, but whilst he played great that week, the course probably played 6400 yards that week but at that length the older stars could still win. A lot of my friends came off the tour when they hit driver 3wood to creep on the front edge at a par 5 and later find out that some six foot six Scandinavian popped it on with an 8 iron second shot. I have noticed a lot of good players, even +2 handicappers give the game up when they know they are not good enough to make it. You need to hit it a long way now to compete.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adrian Stiff,
 
I think alot depends upon perspective.
 
At age 86, a 150 yard carry is not viewed in a negative light.
 
At age 26, it would be.
 
Frank Stranhan was a friend of my dad's.
When he stayed at our house, he asked my father to help him carry his luggage into the house.
Frank deliberately left the suitcase with all of his weights in it.
Needless to say, my dad struggled with the suitcase.
 
Frank was probably the first "fitness" guru, after golf he turned to marathon running and kept in great shape.  But, no matter who you are or how much you work out, Father Time takes it's toll.
 
What young people don't understand is that that 86 year old golfer who carries his drive 150 yards, is absolutely thrilled about it, although he probably wants to get it up to 180 yards.
He considers himself lucky to be healthy enough to play the game and even luckier to be a good enough ball striker that his drives carry 150 yards.
 
Remember too, that he's not playing from the tips.
More likely from 6,000 or less.
 
Niall,
 
Did you ever see a lion or a tiger lifting weights ?
They're rock solid muscle and they don't lift weights, ............. they stretch........... constantly.
 
Stretching, keeping a big arc is critical to distance.
 
There are some in golf who advocate stretching to maintain flexibility and distance.

[Thomas Dai]

So if a ball roll-back ever occurs, doesn't it need to be a really, really radical roll-back?


Maybe not to the extent of the 150 yd drive I have somewhat tongue in cheek been mentioning above, but maybe to a level around 50%-60% of current ball performance?


As to folks still playing with what would then an illegal ball, that might well happen for a while in a 'golf with a few mates' scenario, maybe until their supply of 'old/illegal' balls ran out, but as soon as a player tries it in weekly medal or stableford etc their 'mates' will snitch on them immediately.

As to how far folks really hit the ball, hit a bunch of shots with your usual make/type of ball in conjunction with one of these top-notch Trackman type machines etc. You're carry distance is very unlikely to be what you presently think it is.

I like Adrian's 6' 6" Scandinavian example. Makes me recall standing at the back of the range at a European Tour event many, many years ago when Anders Forsbrand (who isn't 6'-6") walked onto the range with a metal headed driver with a green coloured shaft which he then proceeded to use to knock balls over the maintenance sheds that were at the end of the range with a high net protecting the front of them. No one else was even hitting into the net. Amazing at the time but I got bored of watching this after a while so went to watch various other Pro's practicing their chipping, pitching, bunker play and putting, which was far more interesting and ultimately more profitable/£ to me in the long run


As to stretching, yoga exercises etc, couldn't agree more.



One thing coming through is that ego seems to be be a pretty powerful (sic!) factor in golf.


atb

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