[Tom_Doak]

With Volume 3 of The Confidential Guide on hold due to weather, I'm thinking of making a four-day side trip for Volume 4 as part of a business trip to Europe in January.


There are tons of courses I'd like to see in Europe, but most of them are in northern climes, and most of the warm-weather choices [say, the Costa del Sol] have already been covered by at least one or two of my fellow correspondents.  So, my most interesting candidates appear to be:


Greece:  Costa Navarino and Crete G.C.
Turkey:  we've seen almost none of these; or
Tenerife, which looks promising.


What say you?  Are the Tenerife courses worth covering in The Confidential Guide?  What other destination am I missing?  Thanks for your recommendations!

[Brad Tufts]

How about Thracian Cliffs?


I thought this might be in Greece, but just looked it up and I see it's on the Black Sea in Bulgaria.  Looks like a tough site, although beautiful and they have hosted a few big euro tourneys recently.


On second thought, the weather looks similar to Boston lately...

[jeffwarne]

With Volume 3 of The Confidential Guide on hold due to weather, I'm thinking of making a four-day side trip for Volume 4 as part of a business trip to Europe in January.


There are tons of courses I'd like to see in Europe, but most of them are in northern climes, and most of the warm-weather choices [say, the Costa del Sol] have already been covered by at least one or two of my fellow correspondents.  So, my most interesting candidates appear to be:


Greece:  Costa Navarino and Crete G.C.
Turkey:  we've seen almost none of these; or
Tenerife, which looks promising.


What say you?  Are the Tenerife courses worth covering in The Confidential Guide?  What other destination am I missing?  Thanks for your recommendations!

Morocco?
not Europe but pretty close
Just got back


Turkey pretty cold in January

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm assuming by your mention of the Costa del Sol you've got the Algarve papered as well, but just in case.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Between Bordeaux and Biarritz you could play [size=78%]Golf Du Medoc, Hossegor, Chiberta, arrivng in one of the most charming of French Sesaide towns.  There are a bout four more Doak Fours within 12 mins of whatever hotel you choose.  Doubt any will score more than a 6 but you can al least remind the masses that they fly over a lot of good golf to play more average (3's) stuff down south.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]January may not be the best month to visit but I've swum in the sea in February. [/size]

[Adam Lawrence]

I'd probably suggest Morocco too. Likely better weather than Spain or Portugal, and in some ways more interesting golf. There is a lot of ordinary golf in Morocco, but I would prioritise Kyle Phllips' Tagazhout in Agadir, Mazagan, done by Frank Henegan for Gary Player, Assoufid in Marrakech (lots of golf in Marrakech, most very ordinary) and Royal Dar es Salaam.


Belek could be worth investigating, though the weather could be hit and miss. In my opinion the golf there is OK with no standout courses. Lykia Links _should_ have been the standout, one of the best sites you'll ever see, but unfortunately Perry Dye bulldozed the hell out of the property and, imo, ruined it.

[Jaeger Kovich]

We saw some cool stuff in Portugal last Feb/March. There are 3-4 worth seeing within 1:30 of Lisbon.

[Clyde Johnson]

I don't know the answer, but is there any decent golf, or any at all, along that Adriatic coastline - Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania?


Too rugged, at a guess.

[Brad Tufts]

When I visited in 2008, there were only 27 holes in Croatia at the time.


I don't think any of those countries have much.


Croatia is GORGEOUS, one of my favorite non-golf places on earth!

[Michael Graham]

Tom,

For ease of travel I would definitely choose the Belek region of Turkey. Once you base yourself at one hotel you have minimum travel time between the many courses along the Mediterranean coast. I agree with Adam that Lykia doesn't make the most of the land but it is definitely worth seeing.

[Adam Lawrence]

I don't know the answer, but is there any decent golf, or any at all, along that Adriatic coastline - Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania?


Too rugged, at a guess.

Not really. There are a number of projects in that part of the world but nothing has yet been finished.

[Thomas Dai]

How about Marco Simone GC in Rome, the just announced site for the 2020 Ryder Cup (sic!)

Not the obvious call but Mediterranean island golf should be okay in Jan - Sardinia? Corsica? Sicily?

Although not in the Med, Mid-Atlantic actually, but I recall reading of a very fine old course on the Azores. Just looked it up, it's called Furnas GC, designed by Philip Mackenzie Ross. I believe there are some other courses on the Azores too - see map - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7774941,-25.3422727,17z/data=!3m1!1e3


Atb


PS - Maybe not in Jan weather but where there's oil and gas money decent golf tends to appear - Azerbaijan and Kazakstan come to mind and Euro tour events have been held there already I believe.

[Marty Bonnar]

You're not really going to find any hidden gems anywhere in the med, but Turkey and Cyprus have some interesting stuff.
Better to get yourself to Gullane for the 29th!!!
Cheers,
F.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Basically everything can be a hit or miss in January. If you're lucky you can have 15°C in Belek, at the Algarve and in Spain. If you're unlucky its freezing cold and rainy anywhere. So just for the quality of courses and the sights (since I assume you got Bordeaux covered due to your work) I would go for the Lisbon area.

[Mark Pearce]

It he weather was lovely last week in the Algarve, shorts and short sleeved shirt weather and at least Palmares is worth seeing, Pine Cliffs too, possibly.

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks for the responses so far.


Morocco is out for now, because my wife and I are planning a bigger trip there later next year.


Biarritz, I've done. 


I'll definitely get to Portugal and Bulgaria, too, but I'll wait for a better time than January.


No one has said anything about Tenerife - has anybody been there?  I like to be a pioneer.

[jeffwarne]

I'd probably suggest Morocco too. Likely better weather than Spain or Portugal, and in some ways more interesting golf. There is a lot of ordinary golf in Morocco, but I would prioritise Kyle Phllips' Tagazhout in Agadir, Mazagan, done by Frank Henegan for Gary Player, Assoufid in Marrakech (lots of golf in Marrakech, most very ordinary) and Royal Dar es Salaam.

Adam,
While I would agree with your four choices, those four are really spread out.
I know because our crazy itinerary had us at all four (+Royal Palm)and our hosts were out to squash the myth that a Muslim country had no nightlife
I must say I enjoyed Assoufid the most (semidesert golf with interesting terrain) followed in order by Royal Dar es Salaam Red(very different forested / Old school Trent Jones feel and really exacting greens in size and shape)
then probably a tie with Tagazout and Mazagan (though Magazan is an incredible site a bit like Spanish Bay or Spyglass' first 5 holes)
If pressed I would suggest skipping Tagazout for now as Agadir is quite isolated from the rest, unless one were going to play some of the others nearby there (the 9 holer in town looked intriguing to me)


Unfortunately our professional event was played from tees ranging from 7400-7800 yards (brand new tees at Royal Dar es Salaam and soft to boot ) so the variety piece was missing-nearly every par 3 we played was 200-230.Assoufid did have a couple of shorter par 3's, and had the most variety in general.(after a brutal start)

I would have liked to have played one of the older, more mature, perhaps more gentler courses but no doubt their mission was to promote the new resorts (except the Red which is older but is crazy hard especially with the new tees)

That could be because I just don't like very many modern golf courses-everyone is so afraid of a mundane hole or two that your head is ready to explode when you finish.
That and I very rarely like the scale, grassing lines, and multiple tee setup on so many moderns.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,


I never played the Tenerife Open but I never heard anything good about the course there.


They did have promising things to say about Troia in Portugal. It was 1983 but it sounded like it could be really good - with work.It was Trent-Jones I think.
Estela in Oporto is linksy and on the sea. My memory is fuzzy but it was decent enough to warrant a trip.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom,


I never played the Tenerife Open but I never heard anything good about the course there.


They did have promising things to say about Troia in Portugal. It was 1983 but it sounded like it could be really good - with work.It was Trent-Jones I think.
Estela in Oporto is linksy and on the sea. My memory is fuzzy but it was decent enough to warrant a trip.

Mike, did you ever play Estoril?  My brother and I played there in 1962.  Juan Carlos, the future king of Spain, was in the group ahead of us.   Short, very hilly, I think the Portugese Open was played there in those days.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Tom - The Algarve you could see 20 courses in a week if you wanted. The are five or six that are pretty good IMO The two main golfing areas in continental Europe are Spain and Portugal, they have the biggest chunk of the traffic because of the weather. Lisbon needs to be covered too. The Murcia region of Spain also. January is still 70sF temp wise for the Algarve and Del Sol.


[size=78%]Bulgaria has the best 3 courses almost touching each other, but January is too cold. I think the courses would be closed. [/size]


Poland has a few, there is a nice new one in Slovakia too but January is the wrong time, I think you have little choice but Spain or Portugal because of the weather. Turkey I am not sure. Cyprus is warm. Avoid Syria.

[Matt Dawson]

Tom

You asked about golf in Tenerife, and my honest opinion is that you probably shouldn't bother. We holiday either there or Lanzarote (neighbouring island of the Canaries) every year for some winter sun in Feb/March time so I know it pretty well.

It's a popular holiday destination for retired folk and families with young children, as it's an easy 4hr direct flight from the UK and a pleasant climate. Jan to March it's probably the warmest place in Europe, temps are in low 20s.

I have always intended to play golf whilst there, even driving up to Golf Lanzarote and looking around, but everything I saw was pretty uninspiring. It's a Ron Kirby design from around 2010 and ran into some troubles in the Euro crisis I believe. It certainly looked half-finished and uncared for. Spain & her remote islands like Canaries have suffered badly in the recession, and continue to suffer, given their huge reliance on real estate sales and tourism. Plenty of access roads leading nowhere. The geography is volcanic black rock and a stony gravel called picon. Think Arizona desert golf but with a black lunar landscape backdrop

A friend tells me that the best golf in the islands is at Abama in Tenerife, which is part of the Ritz Carlton hotel. His report was distinctly lukewarm, so I didn't try as we were not staying on site. I believe it's eye-wateringly expensive and a hilly track with carts and 5hr rounds behind 4balls of holiday golfers.

So for climate I would go, but forget the golf. Realistically the only S. Europe course I'd like to see is probably Sperone in Corsica

[Thomas Dai]

Coastal areas and islands further north can still be okay in Jan......surprisingly there's an island off northern Norway that apparently doesn't even get any frost.....no course there unfortunately!


Although essentially part of the UK, and I suppose therefore covered by Vol I of the CG, Royal Jersey, La Moye and Royal Guernsey on the Channel Isles could be worth a visit. Easy to get to them as well.


Atb

[Mike_Clayton]

Bill,


I never did play Estoril. They did play there often in the Open.


Jersey is a good call. Royal Jersey particularly worth seeing and not only for the history of Vardon and Ray.
It's closer to France than England so fine for V4.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Sicily may be quite nice in January. Verdura is ranked high in Italy and you might be lucky enough to catch Mount Etna erupting.

[Adam Lawrence]

I haven't been to Sicily in January but I did take a look at the weather patterns there and I got the impression that the dead of winter there was likely to be pretty miserable. I did like Verdura though. Tom, if you do decide to go there let me know and I will introduce you to Niall Cameron, the director of golf.

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