Holes that get harder as you get closer to the hole

[Patrick_Mucci]

I was thinking about what Tom Doak had to say about par 5's and how critical the second shot was.
 
The 15th hole at Pine Valley gets incrementally more difficult as you get closer to the hole.
 
The tee shot is fairly benign as the fairway has decent width.
 
But, the second shot is usually played from a sidehill lie to a narrower DZ.
 
And, the 3rd shot is to a severely sloping green with an exagerated false front.
That green is well bunker and the approach is narrow.
 
Even when the golfer reaches the green, his work is not done, as it's a difficult green to putt.
 
What other holes get more difficult as you get closer to the hole ?

[Bill Brightly]

Ridgewood 8 West.


If you have hit a really good drive that cuts off the dogleg left, you have some options on your second shot. You can lay back to about 110-160 and hit your approach from fairly flat ground. But if you carry it further you are playing into an upslope the also tilts severely to the left. The green is small, with left and right halves that both slope right-to-left, so you really want to be in the fairway to use spin to stop the ball. But if your second shot ends up in the left or right rough, this is extremely difficult shpt, even with a wedge. An EXCELLENT par 5.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,


I agree.


But, I'd add # 3 at Ridgewood East as well.


Another terrific Par 5

[Sam Krume]

I think that the 12th at the Addington could fit in here quite nicely

[Tim Gallant]

Do par-3s count? Rye 5th - can't imagine having an easier shot into the green than from the tee box. Might be a cliche, but the second shot into the par-3s ARE the hardest shots at Rye!

[Chuck Glowacki]

#7 NGLA

[Sean_A]

I don't read Doak's comments as the 2nd shot should be hard...just interesting and probably one which requires the golfer make a clear choice.  Although to me, that sort of shot should start back at the tee if a player has ambitions to reach the green in two or the optimal spot to approach in three...even if it isn't obvious to the golfer.  That said, there must be some restraint in building too many holes which are too "clever"....if you get my drift.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

The first place I thought of when I saw this topic was Ballybunion.  It's not entirely true; as long as you're straight in to those greens you are fine.  But miss one to the side and you'd rath be 100 yards back in the fairway.

[Thomas Dai]

Would the Championship course at Royal County Down perhaps be the opposite of this? On and around the greens maybe not as taxing as some but getting from the tee to within say 10-50 yds of a green, that's where the hardness is?
atb

[Jeff Taylor]

Ballyhack #2?

[Tim Martin]

Yale 10
Wannamoisett 5 and 7
Shinnecock 10

[john_stiles]

#10 at Palmetto is a par 5, shortish and reachable.

The hole has a very small green, with a steep high falloff behind and a small false front.

You have to decide whether to go for it, or lay back for your favorite short shot between the flanking fairway bunkering, or lay back further so you don't have to worry about the bunkers.

If you end about 5 to 50 yards short, or worse in the flanking bunkers, you likely have a difficult up and down.

Playing this type of hole,  maybe more difficult as you get closer, is interesting in match play.

[Phil Lipper]

I think the 4th at Lahinch the Klondike is like that. The hole gets narrower as you get closer plus you have a 35' dune to clear on the second shot.

[Ed Brzezowski]

I think the 8th at Merion East is a perfect example. The closer you get the larger the bunker appears and you end up with an akward downhill and a little side hill shot to a well bunkered green with visability issues.

[JESII]

Interesting Ed...first impression was doubting your premise but it's a good one. #7 kind of fits that bill as well.

[Matthew Petersen]

On the prior thread, someone had mentioned #16 at TPC Sawgrass, which definitely fits the bill. A pretty wide open drive with not too much trouble and just more and more trouble the closer you get to the green.


Such a hole is interesting because it puts a strange sort of pressure on the drive, even without significant hazards. You want to hit a good drive to give yourself the best options for the second shot (going for it, or reaching position A with a layup). A poor drive not only brings the disappointment in knowing you won't be able to make the heroic attempt, but suddenly makes the layup threatening.

[Andrew Bernstein]

The 6th at Dormie Club is a contender.


The tee shot, though mostly blind, is played into a 100 yard wide fairway. From there, the layup is a surprisingly difficult shot to a gradually narrowing fairway. The approach needs to be on target as the green is narrow and surrounded by steep drop-offs and tough bunkers. It's tough to walk away from a 5 par with bogey when you're virtually guaranteed to be playing your second shot from the fairway.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Interesting Ed...first impression was doubting your premise but it's a good one. #7 kind of fits that bill as well.

That is also a great choice, that course just has some nice second shots.

[Ian Andrew]

The 6th at Castle Stuart, I loved how I had no clue how narrow a target it would become till the very last minute

[BCrosby]

My favorite example is the 15th at PVGC.


A long, uphill par 5 that gets narrower and less forgiving as you approach the green.


Bob

[Marty Bonnar]

Is the 70 or 80 yard (more?) carry over water tee shot on the 15th at PV really 'fairly benign'?

F.

[David_Tepper]

#18 at TOC?

[BCrosby]

Is the 70 or 80 yard (more?) carry over water tee shot on the 15th at PV really 'fairly benign'?

For most players, yes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

#18 at TOC?   ?
 
How so ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is the 70 or 80 yard (more?) carry over water tee shot on the 15th at PV really 'fairly benign'?
 
YES

F.