[Ian Andrew]

Dan,

It's a tough site.
But something tells me that was part of the point.
"The rest of us"  don't get large or easy tracts of land to work with.

[Josh Bills]

Dan,


I submitted one, though it does assume a portion of the trees will be removed.  Kudos to those who have attempted to solve this in real life, impressive. 


Josh

[Russ Arbuthnot]

Bummed that I just saw this, but after reading all the struggles, maybe not so bummed after all!


Will have to keep my eye out a little better for another one of these (hopefully soon!?)


Looking forward to seeing the submissions.

[Bob Brightly]

Dan,
My first plan had 3 shared greens! Agree it saved some space. Then I got the scale figured out and realized I had about 8 par 3's/drivable 4's. Back to the drawing board to eek out some length, ended up with none
Bob

[BCowan]

Bummed that I just saw this, but after reading all the struggles, maybe not so bummed after all!


Will have to keep my eye out a little better for another one of these (hopefully soon!?)


Looking forward to seeing the submissions.

Russ,

   You are alive!!!  I'm planning on an 18 hole ACC later this winter.  Hopefully the honorable judges will agree to officiate an 18 hole ACC.  The site is half in Ohio and half in Michigan... 

[Steve Lang]

   Ben thanks for your efforts!


Tough site indeed!

[Matthew Rose]

I managed to just get one in..... but I ended up with a pretty short and tiny track. One or two holes are barely over pitch and putt status. There's a couple of templates in there, but they are probably too short to work.

[Ben Stephens]

Following permission from Adrian.


Here is the actual planning application proposal by SAS Golf Design which:


- Uses inert landfill - red contour lines are the new levels


- Does not use or touch areas around the existing tree roots


- The direction of playing balls is away from Nore Road and the existing footpath north of the site


- Tree loss to be as minimal as possible


- Sensitive wildlife areas facing the Bristol Channel are no go areas


- Green to tee walking distance to be as minimal as possible


- No sand bunkers due to costs so all bunkers are grass bunkers


- 1500m2 Himalayas style putting green


- Chipping area on existing chipping area









Final detailed layout plan submitted to planners

[Ben Stephens]

Basic images showing before or after for planning purposes





Hole 1 to green - Before







Hole 1 to green - After (this was original proposal now changed incorporating more trees and bushes)







Hole 2 to fairway - Before







Hole 2 to fairway - After







Hole 3 to green - Before







Hole 3 to green - After







Hole 7 to green - Before







Hole 7 to green - After







Hole 9 to fairway - Before







Hole 9 to fairway - After

[Ben Stephens]

The level of detailing on the plans are quite high. The zoomed in area of 2nd, 3rd and 5th greens show the contour lines - existing in black and proposed in red at 0.5m intervals


The 4th fairway is banked so it can be closer to the road compared with the other holes


The 3rd green is protected by banks from drives on the 2nd hole

[BCowan]

Thanks to all that submitted.  Very impressive.  It looks as though I have a lock on last place.. 

[Russ Arbuthnot]

Russ,

   You are alive!!!  I'm planning on an 18 hole ACC later this winter.  Hopefully the honorable judges will agree to officiate an 18 hole ACC.  The site is half in Ohio and half in Michigan... 

Sounds great, Ben. Looking forward to it. Good luck to all the entrants.

[Thomas Dai]

Ben,


Most interesting. I did wonder with the overall severity of the slope, and how golf balls seem to like to bounce and roll sideways, whether three holes one-above-the-other would fit. Using grass bunkers rather than sand ones seems a fine idea. I see there were also badger sets to consider as well....that could be fun maintenance wise.


Terrific idea to incorporate a Himalayas style putting green (and practice/chipping area). Should be compulsory everywhere! A potential additional source of income too.


I wish you and Adrian every success with this venture.


Atb

[Andy Gray]

Having looked at the real course plan posted by Ben and compared it to my submission, I would think I could have pushed the limits a little more in terms of closeness of one hole to the next. The architects, having experience, will know what works and what doesn't and can design accordingly. As an amateur it is a bit of a guess, but even if I knew better, I could probably only get one more shot out of it.


As a side note, when I was laying out my routing I assumed we were keeping earth moving to a minimum, but on a site like that it was near impossible to layout any hole without any earth moving required.

I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else came up with.


Andy

[Matthew Rose]

There's a reason why these guys are doing it for a living and I'm at home in my pajamas playing around with Unity.

[Ben Stephens]

Hi Andy


The key is to get the distance in-between holes and the contours right. If you go from macro to micro you get a better idea of scale and distance as well as playable levels.


the 15 degree angle from either side from all tees is a vital tool from a safety perspective


Cheers
Ben 

Having looked at the real course plan posted by Ben and compared it to my submission, I would think I could have pushed the limits a little more in terms of closeness of one hole to the next. The architects, having experience, will know what works and what doesn't and can design accordingly. As an amateur it is a bit of a guess, but even if I knew better, I could probably only get one more shot out of it.


As a side note, when I was laying out my routing I assumed we were keeping earth moving to a minimum, but on a site like that it was near impossible to layout any hole without any earth moving required.

I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else came up with.


Andy

[Ben Stephens]

Hi Thomas


Adrian and I have softened the slopes in the fairway areas so that is can be more playable.


If the fairways were missed the slope in some ways becomes a hazard meaning that the shots are more difficult to hit - ie ball above or below feet


A drive missed to the higher level could bounce back onto the fairways


I agree more Himalayas greens needs to be built to encourage more people to take up golf.


We are building a lot of grass bunkers and hollows at our current project at Greys Green Golf Course in which we have completed construction on the first nine holes with a further 27 to go over the next 3 to 4 years - hope to put up the photos on GCA sometime.


Cheers
Ben

Ben,


Most interesting. I did wonder with the overall severity of the slope, and how golf balls seem to like to bounce and roll sideways, whether three holes one-above-the-other would fit. Using grass bunkers rather than sand ones seems a fine idea. I see there were also badger sets to consider as well....that could be fun maintenance wise.


Terrific idea to incorporate a Himalayas style putting green (and practice/chipping area). Should be compulsory everywhere! A potential additional source of income too.


I wish you and Adrian every success with this venture.


Atb

[Thomas Dai]

Ben, thanks for the explanation. I look forward to visiting both Portishead and Greys Green sometime.
Atb

[Peter Pallotta]

Ben, Adrian - thanks much for this. I have been following along from afar (as I know I have literally zero skill/talent for such exercises), and was rewarded by the sheer elegance and loveliness of the 'map' in post #82 -- which seems to me a  picture and a reflection of  the "practical art" that is gca. Finding a way to fit "golf" into such a small and hemmed in site, and managing to find/create classic land-draping golf holes like 9, and 7 and 3 into the mix is a testament to your skills,  and is a potentially wonderful and much-needed model for/contribution to the "canon".
Peter   

[Ian Andrew]

I have provided comments back to everyone who entered by email.
I feel they took a lot of time putting their submissions together and it was only appropriate they get some feedback.

I addressed some issues of spacing and flow, but the overriding comment was pretty consistent.

This site is severely sloped towards the sea. If you design a hole where the fairway turns one way and the slope runs the other it's called a reverse cant. This technique does work - William Flynn used it regularly - but the slopes can't be severe unless theirs a landform to support a side. Therefore if you try to employ this type of hole on this property, the ball is going to run off into the rough just about every time.

There was a spot here it "might" work, but generally the people who submitted would have been better off running holes toward the slope and turning the hole with the slope.

This was a case of figuring out how to come down and then where you could fit in some fours that ran "with" the land. There were quite a few natural holes to choose from and everyone found at least one.

There were some excellent holes and I tried to point out where I liked people's choices to help them learn and then consider the same question again. In hindsight I wished we did what you would normally do with turf students. Take the same land and ask for either four or six holes and make it about using the land and not about spacing.

Kudos to those who entered, better to risk and learn.

[Ian Andrew]

sorry, repeat post

[Joe Hancock]

Ian,

I had made a suggestion to one of the entrants that the site might be well utilized as a par 3 course, with an unusual number of holes, be it 10, 12, 14....whatever. Did anyone go that route?

I felt like the predominant hillside was going to be the fly in the ointment as far as anything conventional and functional. But with par 3's you can get away with less earthmoving, restricting it to the benching in of the features while utilizing bunkers to control run-away shots.

I will be looking forward to everyone's take on this site, especially as the entries are made available. Thanks to all of you who took the time to attempt this exercise!

[Andy Gray]

Joe,


That was one of the ideas that I had as well, but went conventional 9 holes as I thought 12 par 3s on a severe site might get a bit repetitious (lots of side slope par 3s, probably plenty of uphill green to tee walks). I also wanted to explore a Sheep Ranch concept or a reversible par 3 course, but didn't have enough time to do the concepts justice.


Andy

[Kalen Braley]

Is it too late to submit something?

Spent the weekend in palm springs, just got back.

Kalen

[Josh Bills]

Ian,


Thank you for taking the time to educate and enlighten those of us (me) on the outside looking in.  Your input and guidance show despite playing the game since I was about 11, such knowledge does not equate to seeing in 3D what seems good on paper.  My first attempt at a routing, thankfully not a complete failure, gives me a faint glimmer of hope that a few things worked and am genuinely excited to try more.  I look forward to seeing what others have done and thank Ben and Adrian for getting this set up.  I have gained an appreciation for those building in the days where very little land was moved to find a great routing. 


Josh

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