News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Someone recently sent me the below page from the June 15, 1926 edition of the magazine Spur, exactly two months to the day after (at least the first nine holes of) The Course at Yale officially opened. The bottom picture shows golfers on Yale's Biarritz 9th hole and comes as close as possible to definitively proving that the green not only was designed to have only one tier (with the front tier and swale serving as the "approach"), but also that it in fact played that way when the course opened before changing sometime shortly thereafter.
 
A man holding what appears to be a wedge, and seemingly waiting to play his shot onto the green, stands on the front tier in the foreground; another holding his (or "an," if he's a caddie) entire golf bag stands in the swale on the right, while to his left a third man, looking downward presumably in contemplation of his lie and ensuing shot, also stands in the swale; and the lone putter, possibly in the group ahead, stands on the back tier with another man to his right looking on. The grass in the swale, moreover, looks relatively shaggy, while the relative smoothness of the front tier proves only that "the approach to the hole is smoother and longer than usual," as an unnamed author wrote in the August 28, 1925 article accompanying Charles Banks's hole-by-hole descriptions in the Yale Alumni Weekly. As for the caption, it appears to be another iteration of Banks's post- or at least during-construction description from that publication, which confirmed that the architect's intent was always for only the back tier to serve as the green.
 
As I learned last month, we have gone in circles on this issue numerous times over the years. In Charlie Bell's "Over the Swale at Yale Today" thread (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61893.msg1470297.html#msg1470297), I tried to summarize the various viewpoints and set forth all of the known facts and pictures supporting them. This latest picture, which, to my knowledge and based on my extensive searching, has never made its way into any of the relevant threads here on the Discussion Group, seems to tilt the scale firmly in favor of the one-tier camp.
 

 
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Noel Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
From the estimable Tony Pioppi's blog.. I agree with Tony in spirit, but I think Front Pins with today's modern game are fair play to have as green..



Yale's Biarritz Green Revisted


For years, it was assumed that the Biarritz green at Yale Golf Course was designed so that the shelf before and after the swale was meant to be green height, making it the only one that Seth Raynor, Charles Blair Macdonald or Charles Banks designed that way. In all the other cases, the green itself is only the shelf after the trough. Most of the Raynor Biarritz greens I've seen could not have the front portion converted to green height, anyway, owing to their steepness and severity. Some courses like Shoreacres and West Hampton have flat approach areas. Along the way, both of those layouts began mowing the front tier as green.


A few years ago, I called into question the assertion that the entire green complex at Yale's ninth had always been intended to be green after uncovering an article about the Seth Raynor layout.

In the Aug. 18, 1925 issue of the Hartford Courant, an in-depth piece on the new Yale Golf Course included a short detailing of nearly every hole. The ninth is described, in part, this way: "The green proper is behind a deep groove in the approach which is of about the same area as the green. The approach is bunkered heavily on the right and left and the fairway is the lake."

Approach and green are not synonymous, meaning only the back tier was meant to be green. Recently, the Yale courses biggest fan, Geoffrey Childs, uncovered this photo that appears to show the front portion of the complex as approach and the back only, as green.

So, now the question becomes: should Yale return it's Biarritz to the way Raynor designed it? I say, yes. Restoring a golf course -- in this case a great one -- as closely as possible to the intent of the original designer should always been at the forefront of any architectural decision.

I think, it will also add fun to the hole. Players whose shots fail to reach the back tier would have the option of chipping, putting or running their golf balls onto the back, where now putting is the only method.

I have been at the Fishers Island Biarrtiz for hundreds of shots, either as a caddy or a player, and watched successful approaches played with putters, sand wedges, 7-irons and hybrids. I've also seen golfers fail using every single one of those clubs. It's great to watch golfers engage their brains on a shot and not just mindlessly go about the task at hand. Converting the Yale Biarrtz will bring back the element of thought to the already-fantastic ninth hole.


Posted by Anthony Pioppi at
9:06 AM [/font][/size]

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks, Noel. Note that I covered Tony's post, as well as every other post on this subject here on GCA and elsewhere, in the thread linked to at the end of my post (before the picture). The question my current post is meant to address is not whether front pins are good or bad; as I've noted elsewhere, I quite like having both tiers play as green, and thus have no problem with the early switch of the front tier from "approach" to "green." Instead, I'm trying to add to the discussion about the history of the hole's design, and this picture appears to confirm what I and several others maintained based on the other historical documents: that the hole was not only designed, but initially played as having only one tier of actual green (the back).
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Charlie_Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
That's impressive research!  What can you tell us about The Spur? It's an unusual name for a periodical.

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks, Charlie. To clarify, the picture from the Spur was sent to me, so I take no credit for that (as opposed to the research I set forth in your earlier thread). All I know/could find about the Spur is that it was published by the New York-based Angus Company twice a month from 1913 to 1940. It appears to have been preceded by the publication Bit & Spur and was absorbed by the publication Arts & Decoration.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nevermind.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Cool find, Benjamin. This isn't the first time The Spur has yielded photographic evidence related to a Golden Age golf course. A few years ago I wrote a story for the Met Golfer about how it influenced The Creek to alter its 10th hole, with Gil Hanse at the controls. Here are a couple of links:


http://www.metgolferdigital.com/i/118955-apr-may-2013
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=55484.0


I saw the full copy of The Spur that Joe Zlotnik mailed to The Creek. It was basically a sporting-lifestyle magazine for the northeastern elite. They covered stuff like polo, fox hunts and debutante balls, and also had some of the interior design porn that you can find in Architectural Digest today. My guess is that golf was a regular beat for them, as well, so it's possible there are other finds yet to be made. 



   

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
This is a terrific thread...thanks, all!
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here's the direct link to The Met Golfer article Thomas referenced: http://www.metgolferdigital.com/i/118955-apr-may-2013/66

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Q.E.D. indeed.




Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Q.E.D. indeed.

Gotta agree here.

This one is indeed  Game.Set. and Match!!

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Oh my.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
I was completely convinced by the previous thread ... but am happy to see a golf bag on the ground there.


Golfers never set their bags down on greens, did they?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Patrick_Mucci

The grass in the foreground appears to be consistent throughout the entire green.


If the lake was the "fairway" then the entire two tiers and trough had to be green.


As to the club the golfer in the foreground is holding, with greens mowed as high as they were mowed in 1926 and green speeds as slow as they were in 1926 you couldn't putt from the front tier to the back tier.


Even today, putting from the front tier, through that trough, to the mid-section of the back tier is almost impossible.


Anyone who has played that hole knows that.


Captions in newspapers and periodicals were often in error in the early part of the 20th Century

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Unless the green is badly damaged, its quite clear from looking on the right side of the pic that only the back section is green.  However, does this necessarily mean that was the design intention...is there a possibility that the front section would be properly groomed later?   


Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Unless the green is badly damaged, its quite clear from looking on the right side of the pic that only the back section is green.  However, does this necessarily mean that was the design intention...is there a possibility that the front section would be properly groomed later?   


Ciao


Sean:


Banks is quoted as saying it was the design intention.


The question has always been when this changed.  Ben's photo seems to suggest it was after the course opened.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pat,

I find it interesting that you are fine with the  "lake is fairway" comment to allegedly show the front area is apart of the green.

And then a few sentences later talk about how periodicals and papers back then were full of errors.

Which one is it?   ;D

Patrick_Mucci

Quote from: Kalen Braley link=topic=62258.msg1480010#msg1480010
[font=Verdana
[size=78%]date=1449686522][/size][/font]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]Karen,[size=78%][/font]

[/size]That's my point.[size=78%][/font]

[/size]Thanks[size=78%][/font]
[/size]
Pat,

I find it interesting that you are fine with the  "lake is fairway" comment to allegedly show the front area is apart of the green.

And then a few sentences later talk about how periodicals and papers back then were full of errors.

Which one is it?   ;D