‘To Heath & Links’ -- Study tour of classic courses

[David Sucher]

This tour sounds absolutely terrific:
http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Architects-take-in-four-historic-UK-courses-as-part-of-EIGCA-study-tour/3504/Default.aspx#.Vl384xNVhBc

But it is just for professional golf course architects.

So has anyone ever seen anything similar for lay people? Just ordinary golfers who are interested in golf course design? And conducted on an on-going basis?

And it could be done anywhere. I am sure that local Seattle golfers (like me) would love to walk, say, Chambers Bay with one of its designers who could explain it. (Or any significant course -- I am just mentioning Chambers Bay because it has received so much attention.)

---

From my experience as urban planner/real estate developer I know that the vast majority of people have little idea what they are seeing when they walk around a city.

Likewise I know that (as a relative beginner) when I walk a golf course I know that I am unable to see the subtleties, or even the obvious design decisions, made by the designer.

So I'd love the chance to walk a signficant course and have an expert explain what's going on.

I bet that such a niche travel business for such tours would have customers.

In fact, it could be an add-on to a round: Play the course _after_ a “walk around” with the experts — would certainly enrich the whole experience, and maybe lead to better scores?

(An additional note: With modern technology, such interpretative tours could be made possible via iTunes etc far beyond the few able to have a live guide.)

UPDATE:

An issue with guided tours might be conflict with people actually playing golf. But obviously it can be worked out somehow.

[Adam Lawrence]

Funny that. I was musing only the other day that what the golf travel business lacks is guided tours -- visiting courses and either playing with or getting a presentation from someone who knows the design and history of the course really well.

[Jason Topp]

Many of the GCA events such as the Buda Cup or the Dixie Cup share a lot of similarities.

[Sam Andrews]

Funny that. I was musing only the other day that what the golf travel business lacks is guided tours -- visiting courses and either playing with or getting a presentation from someone who knows the design and history of the course really well.

So, get cracking Adam!

[Thomas Dai]

Potential to be similar to Test Match cricket tours where (ex-pro) cricketers are paid to accompany the cricket tour fans.


Could be a possible Arthur Daley* for those in the golf architect etc business.


atb


* an Arthur Daley, per the 'Minder' TV series, being a nice little earner

[David Sucher]

Funny that. I was musing only the other day that what the golf travel business lacks is guided tours -- visiting courses and either playing with or getting a presentation from someone who knows the design and history of the course really well.

I hope some travel company (or even just one golf course) offers such learning experience.

Speaking of which....in terms of a learning experience, I wonder which courses offer the most? I would imagine that such a list would track one of the "Top 100 courses" list as the great classic courses have the most "design content", even if has evolved over generations.
But maybe not? That's why I ask.

[jeffwarne]

Bill Safrin HP at Myopia Hunt Club leads course walks on summer evenings

[Tony_Muldoon]

Presumably they played Sunningdale New if they played holes unchanged since Colt designed them? I think the old with its changes form Park to Colt is the more interesting study.
 
 
Did anyone go on this, what is the state of the lost Colt holes on the New?  There was a thread saying they were bing cleared but that was a coupleof years ago.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I like the concept of golf course architecture tours. Here's another concept, more golf course community in nature:


http://myphillygolf.com/detail.asp?id=16922

[Duncan Cheslett]

Along with other members of The Alister MacKenzie Society I met up with this touring party of  architects for a couple of days at Alwoodley and Moortown before they headed south. It was a very enjoyable weekend and I met some fascinating people.

The guys I spoke with were rather underwhelmed by the prospect of a day walking Sunningdale with a guide and were talking of bunking off and exploring the delights of London instead.

Like most people, if they were going to be on a golf course they wanted to play golf. I'm not sure of the commercial appeal of walking round golf courses listening to lectures.

An hour's slideshow over breakfast before going out playing would be another matter altogether.

[David Sucher]

.....

Like most people, if they were going to be on a golf course they wanted to play golf. I'm not sure of the commercial appeal of walking round golf courses listening to lectures.

An hour's slideshow over breakfast before going out playing would be another matter altogether.

True.
No question it's a niche market or maybe even merely an acquired taste, at best.

But think of it this way:
Everyone likes to eat great food.
Some people also enjoy watching how expert chefs cook it.

[Adam Lawrence]

Along with other members of The Alister MacKenzie Society I met up with this touring party of  architects for a couple of days at Alwoodley and Moortown before they headed south. It was a very enjoyable weekend and I met some fascinating people.

The guys I spoke with were rather underwhelmed by the prospect of a day walking Sunningdale with a guide and were talking of bunking off and exploring the delights of London instead.

Like most people, if they were going to be on a golf course they wanted to play golf. I'm not sure of the commercial appeal of walking round golf courses listening to lectures.

An hour's slideshow over breakfast before going out playing would be another matter altogether.

They weren't walking Sunningdale with a guide, they were playing the New. But they got a tour of the lost Colt holes first.


I don't have a walk with a guidepost in mind, it'd be a playing experience but with some architectural 'education' alongside

[David Sucher]

Here's an apropos passage I just stumbled upon by Herbert Warren Wind about Ben Crenshaw. (Whole essay is quite good too.)

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Wind-re-Crenshaw.jpg

[Tom_Doak]

I am on the receiving end of course tours frequently, from superintendents or longtime pros or members or who knows who?  It's a terrific way to learn a lot about a course quickly ... quicker than playing it yourself.


I have also given as many as I've got.  Over the years I've taken a lot of associates and interns around a lot of famous courses ... which is another great privilege.  [I even drove Ben Crenshaw up to see Shoreacres for the first time.]  That's in addition to touring people around Crystal Downs, or my own work.


I have thought occasionally about working with a tour company to do a guided trip, but I don't think I want to commercialize that activity.  As some of my former pupils might attest, I'm prone to skip around to the good stuff, and I can be pretty hard to keep up with when I'm on a roll.  Besides, the guys who would pay to go are not necessarily the guys you'd most want to hang out with.      

[David Sucher]

Yes, Tom Doak, tours might be difficult to organize and hence more cumbersome, expensive etc.

Maybe recordings available from iTunes Store would be easiest to do and thus make them more accessible.

I can imagine that many courses could have self-guided tours (as in museums) to let people move at their own pace.

I wonder if there is any reason not to listen while playing? Too distracting? Or maybe might even be helpful to lower score by understanding the course better?

[Michael Graham]

It's not quite a tour but the Links Trust are taking bookings for guided walks of the Old Course in 2016. I know they've done this in the past but thought is was free. Will this be the first year they are charging for the walks? Still, you do get a free scorecard. 


http://www.standrews.com/Relax/Walking-Tours-of-St-Andrews-Links

[Dave McCollum]

That was my first thought:  a Sunday tour of the TOC, then hop next door and play the New.

[David Sucher]

It's not quite a tour but the Links Trust are taking bookings for guided walks of the Old Course in 2016. I know they've done this in the past but thought is was free. Will this be the first year they are charging for the walks? Still, you do get a free scorecard. 


http://www.standrews.com/Relax/Walking-Tours-of-St-Andrews-Links

No that is exactly it!
Thanks so much, Michael Graham.
Realistically, one could piece together one's own "tour" if many courses made a sophisticated narrative available through iTunes. Hint, Tom Doak! (And other designers here -- please pardon my ignorance!)

----

I had heard vaguely that in the real old days, families would stroll & picnic the Old Course (and maybe others as well in Scotland?) but then I was thrilled and even a bit shocked to read that the Old Course is STILL closed on every Sunday! How marvelous!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/sports/sundays-on-the-old-course-at-st-andrews-no-golfers-allowed.html

[Jon Wiggett]

David,

you can stroll across TOC any day of the week as long as you do not interfere with play. On Sunday it is still possible to take the family and a picnic along though your probably best advised to keep to the semi-rough to have your snack.

£10 for a walk with a bunch of other people which does not even last an hour and only shows you three hole. What a bargain!!! Still, I am sure they will find plenty of takers and they do need the money I wonder if these tours are part of Mr. Dawson's retirement plan

Better to buy yourself a good book about TOC at one of the town's bookshops and do your own tour.

Jon

[Niall C]

Now, now Jon, you know fine well that Peter Dawson doesn't work for the Links Trust who are organising these walks. Besides how many people want to spend more than an hour walking a course rather than playing it. £10 seems pretty reasonable to me. How much do people get charged for a walking tour of Edinburgh or some other city, and how long does it take ?


Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

I paid for the tour circa July 2008.  There were two, the short version 1, 17 & 18 and the one I went on took you all the way to the Eden and skipped 8,9 & 10.  Fee wasn't more than £10 and was well worth it.  My dog was for free and I don't know how but I've misplaced a photo of his resting on the 11th green.

On my first full day in the Old Town a really knowledgeable local guide told me what it was like to grow up playing the Old Course, filled in some gaps in my knowledge and he could be most entertaining.

"Ladies and Gentlemen I understand if one strolls down the Avenue des Champs-Élysées in Paris,  one can see the finest paintings, try on the most delicate clothes and partake of the tastiest food known to man. Here in Scotland we are made of sterner stuff. You see before you the Elysian Fields and if you are not careful you can easily end up in Hell Bunker..."

[Thomas Dai]

I wouldn't have a problem paying a few quid for a guided walk around a fabled course hosted by someone who really knew his stuff. A tour of a current under construction project would also be of interest.


An opportunity to spend time with a specialist/expert/craftsman in a given profession is an opportunity to learn.


atb

[Michael Graham]

I think that for most visitors who have paid potentially thousands to make the trip to St Andrews paying £10 for a guided walk isn't going to be an issue. The Links Trust is a lean mean money making machine.

[David Sucher]

..... A tour of a current under construction project would also be of interest.

An opportunity to spend time with a specialist/expert/craftsman in a given profession is an opportunity to learn.

An interesting wrinkle (courses under construction) and an insight (observing expertise at work is fun.)

Thanks!

I've spent a lot of time on construction sites and it's extremely interesting to watch an expert (just about everyone!) at work, especially if s/he is able to chat and explain what/why they are doing.