[jeffwarne]

So I tune into the Australian Open expecting to see some wonderful sandbelt course with scruffy native, dirty sand, and browned out surrounds and turns out they aren't playing in the sandbelt but rather on a Nicklaus course with ultra brite bunkers that would fit right in south Florida.
Mea culpa on me for assuming they'd be playing on a classic sandbelt course.(and not even knowing they'd be in Sydney again)
I'm sure it's a fine course, just not distinctive or indigenous texture (like many other courses)


What are some ways an architect can use native vegetation, turf, materials, soil or conditions to create hazards other than imported fake white sand.
I mean it's amazing how seldom anyone has created a look unique to an individual area , climate and surrounding area.


I'll start
1. The stone walls at North Berwick
2. Ruins
3.Sand on sandy sites (friar's head, Pinehurst, Pine valley etc.
4.short grass around greens
5.maintained rough
6.Mounds like those at Kington


What about native grass marked as a hazard (instead of water )to create a cape hole or proetct a par 5?
Rocks
Trees
Grass bunkers
Dips hollows and microundulations-tough on drainage unless great soli
ferns like I see on many UK courses
heather or a US equivalant
Pine straw


What else would work that wouldn't create a maintenance nightmare from erosion etc. yet provide strategic interest,playability and texture and give us a break from the obligatory 80-100 bunkers so accepted as "nomal"

[Ronald Montesano]

You ever golf in Arizona, New Mexico or California? Kinda like the Australia that you envisioned.

[Thomas Dai]

Above ground pipelines
Elect and 'phone cables and pylons
On-course halfway huts, toilet blocks etc
Pathways


Why do these kind of obstructions/hazards etc have to be immoveable obstructions and free drop situations? Why not "tough, you shouldn't have hit it there, play it as it lies"? Or is this good ol' health and safety again?


Atb

[RJ_Daley]

Jeff, as many have already commented, including the TV broadcast team, those wood chips are revolting at The Australian.  The water hazards positioning and interaction with lines of play and terrain are really akin to courses in the U.S. southlands, particularly, although also rest of modern design in other parts of the country. 

It seems to me that they could have sourced native sand and properly screened for particle size in the Sydney area and created sandy-dirt waste areas with more native plants if that was the desire to use native vegitation.  Sure, it isn't the Melbourne sand belt and never will be.  They would very unlikely be able to duplicate the unique shaping and sculpting of bunkering as found in the sand belt on multiple courses there.  But they could certainly, IMHO, establish a more authentic flavor for an identity of Sydney and Australian design flair, that Nicklaus surely missed out on, if you ask me.  OCCM seem to grasp that and are well on their way to completion of a Sydney course not more than a couple par 5s away at Bonnie Doon.  Second page, lower left:

http://www.bdgc.com.au/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/GAMay15_BonnieDoon%20%282%29.pdf

[Tom_Doak]

That's what I loved about Hoylake.  The artificial out-of-bounds hazards there were totally original.


Another, which Pete Dye used at The Golf Club, was using railroad ties or posts set on end, to define an area at the edge of the hole.  I know he had not seen the similar treatment at Rye, in England, when he did that, because he was surprised to see my photos of Rye years later.


Ferns were one of my favorite parts of High Pointe.  On the back nine, sometimes you'd be standing right over your ball, and you could easily get a club on it, but you couldn't really see it very well because of the ferns arching over it.

[Thomas Dai]

Many, many moons ago I played the old army course at Port Dickson in Malaysia.


Parallel to many of the fairways was the army obstacle/training course. Water pits, climbing frames with nets, things to crawl under and through and all that kind of stuff. No free drops if you hit your ball into these areas, play it as it lies.


There's a course in Spain with a raised aqueduct running diagonally across one fairway.


Atb

[jeffwarne]

That's what I loved about Hoylake.  The artificial out-of-bounds hazards there were totally original.


Another, which Pete Dye used at The Golf Club, was using railroad ties or posts set on end, to define an area at the edge of the hole.  I know he had not seen the similar treatment at Rye, in England, when he did that, because he was surprised to see my photos of Rye years later.


Ferns were one of my favorite parts of High Pointe.  On the back nine, sometimes you'd be standing right over your ball, and you could easily get a club on it, but you couldn't really see it very well because of the ferns arching over it.

Thanks for chiming in.


My backyard course had 7 greens with a routing of 18 holes.
The gravel driveway/basketball court was a scary hazard.Took out a few windows blasting out of the gravel.
Monkey grass was a great hazard to define doglegs(about 6 inches high) but it works better on a small scale course where you can see where the ball went in
Azaleas and a fig tree created great hazards and the walkways in the abandoned formal gardens made great rub of green good luck bounces.
The fact that 1/2 the greens were super fast packed sand with undulation and the other 1/2 centipede stimping at 2 made things more interesting.


Surely there are more imaginative choices for obstacles on our courses today other than fakewhite sand that's highly repetitive, generic, and no hazard at all for good players.


Although I'm sure if we tried hard enough we could discuss the merits and frequent access of NGLA

[Garland Bayley]

I've always wondered if you could create a field of small depressions that would cause the mower to ride over top of them on the high ground (miniature ridges) between them so they would be filled with tall grass and be very easily maintained.


The ball would presumably seek the high grass in such a situation.

[Tom_Doak]

I've always wondered if you could create a field of small depressions that would cause the mower to ride over top of them on the high ground (miniature ridges) between them so they would be filled with tall grass and be very easily maintained.


The ball would presumably seek the high grass in such a situation.

That sounds even worse than just having long grass!

[jeffwarne]

Unirrigated broken ground,with sand, scrub, and native grass maintained intermittantly, is a great hazard adding texture as well as strategy as a good lie is very uncertain but very possible.
Palmetto had a number of these a la Pine valley prior to installing formal defined roughs and irrigation in the 1980's

Sadly the "restoration" seemed to only create areas these around teeing areas for use as cart paths-not real strategic-Palmetto lite

[James Bennett]

sounds like those furrowed fairways in Leeds at Moortown and Alwoodley on a few holes (old farming land).
In summer, the non-irrigated fairways had grass in the bottom of the furrows, in winter, the rain-drenched fairways had dry lies on the top of the furrows.

Mini punchbowls and knobs!

[Thomas Dai]

Did I read somewhere herein that Royal Adalaide has a railway track that is in play?


I believe that one of the Sun City courses in South Africa has a crocodile pit on a par-3 that needs to be played over.


Atb

[James Bennett]

yes Thomas, integral part of the course.  Runs diagonally though the property, 12 holes on one side, 6 on the other.  Clubhouse (in the centre of the property) is a few metres from the tracks.  A ball on 18 that is 15 metres through the green is on the tracks, a ball left of the second fairway by 15 metres is on the tracks.

It is a single line, ie trains going to the beach at Grange (two stops away) return on the same tracks.  There might be a two-carriage train every 30 minutes or so.

No safety fencing, no electronic signals for the golfers, just a couple of bitumen walkways from1 green to 2 tee and from 13 green to 14 tee.

Mackenzie was consulted in the 1920's to reroute the course as the original routing played across the railway lines, and there were proposals for electrification of the lines.  The gantry's would have made play 'interesting' and ugly.  His routing eliminated the railway cross-overs.

Advance forward to 1998 and the Australian Open, and the need for length.  Several tees are moved back, and two railway crossings are reintroduced.

The 2nd (normally a straight par 5) now has a 'cape' tee shot played across the railway line to a fairway set diagonally to the tee shot line (quite good line of play really, although too long a carry for me). 

Similarly on 14, a back, back, back tee has been added which plays over the railway line in front - this change is less successful to me (apart from the 'length') as the railway line is not a feature, and the bunkers on the corner shift from being heroic in nature to just penal on the side.  The hole works if you can hit the ball 250 metres plus, otherwise it is a pedestrian forced lay-up hole over otherwise dramatic ground.

here is a guy who was long on 18 - I have only seen this happen once.

[Bill_McBride]

I'll start
1. The stone walls at North Berwick
2. Ruins
3.Sand on sandy sites (friar's head, Pinehurst, Pine valley etc.
4.short grass around greens
5.maintained rough
6.Mounds like those at Kington

Jeff, have you played Pennard?   Your initial list of six indigenous hazards are all in play there.  It's one of the most original courses anywhere. 

[jeffwarne]

I'll start
1. The stone walls at North Berwick
2. Ruins
3.Sand on sandy sites (friar's head, Pinehurst, Pine valley etc.
4.short grass around greens
5.maintained rough
6.Mounds like those at Kington

Jeff, have you played Pennard?   Your initial list of six indigenous hazards are all in play there.  It's one of the most original courses anywhere.

You mean the course that just so happens to be in my TOP 3 ever played?
I have played it on 4 different occasions and each time it has exceeded expectations.
But to be fair, that site has natural advantages of soil and incredible topography, and an added natural advantage of a lack of funds.


Lately I have played some classic old courses in Westchester for the first time in 15-20 years.
To see what has happened there in those no doubt costly ruinovations, one would think electric green 2 inch bluegrass and super white Ohio crushed stone in the bunkers were the only  materials available

[Phil Young]

Jeff,

You asked, "What about native grass marked as a hazard (instead of water )to create a cape hole or proetct a par 5?
Rocks, Trees..."

Tilly did just that on the 12th hole of WFW which he named "Cape." He created the cape by tucking the green site behind trees to the left and at a 30-40 degree angle away from the fairway centerline...

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

You asked, "What about native grass marked as a hazard (instead of water )to create a cape hole or proetct a par 5?
Rocks, Trees..."

Tilly did just that on the 12th hole of WFW which he named "Cape." He created the cape by tucking the green site behind trees to the left and at a 30-40 degree angle away from the fairway centerline...

Nice.
Another example of using trees as an indigenous hazard-which I should have mentioned

[Tom_Doak]

To see what has happened there in those no doubt costly ruinovations, one would think electric green 2 inch bluegrass and super white Ohio crushed stone in the bunkers were the only  materials available

That is probably my single biggest pet peeve about most renovations.  Even IF they get the shaping right, acres and acres of bluegrass straight from the sod farm makes the golf course look like it was just dropped from a different planet.  That look is entirely at odds with my mind's eye view of what a classic course should look like.


The sad thing is, I think many members of many clubs think that over-fertilized bluegrass is a great feature of their renovations.

[Kalen Braley]

I know desert golf doesn't get a lot of love in this place.

But one of the nice things about it is....trees are rare, its mostly open allowing for recovery shots,  and it takes virtually zero maintenance for it to stay as is.

When I think of desert golf, I think Arizona  where it seems like recovery wouldn't be difficult, but then throw in cacti, large rocks, snakes,  burrowing animal holes and gawd knows what else..and it can be quite the challenge without even touching it...

[jeffwarne]

I know desert golf doesn't get a lot of love in this place.

But one of the nice things about it is....trees are rare, its mostly open allowing for recovery shots,  and it takes virtually zero maintenance for it to stay as is.

When I think of desert golf, I think Arizona  where it seems like recovery wouldn't be difficult, but then throw in cacti, large rocks, snakes,  burrowing animal holes and gawd knows what else..and it can be quite the challenge without even touching it...

Kalen,
I've never been a fan of desert golf, BUT my sample size is limited.


My pet peeve with the desert courses I've played is the same as it is with many modern courses carved out of wilderness or surrounded by "native" either planted or indigenous.
There's always an equal amount of room on either side of the centerline so there's rarely a "bail" even to a bad angle, and a good angle's not worth pursuing due to fear of "lostness" in the shite.
thus the strategy becomes to simply hit it just good enough to find it.

Given that there may well be a limited amount of land available to be cleared or maintained, I'd love to see some tight holes, other wide holes, some holes where one can play wide away from the gunch to a poor angle, and/or use of parallel/connected fairways with indigenous features and/or bunkering randomly mixed in  (Sebonack 3,2, and 18 being a wonderful example)

Rather than the usual obligatory "there's plenty of room out there" as you spend most of the day looking for balls hit astray into symetrically and "proportionately" arranged pretty faux and real junk paralleling both sides of every fairway

[Kalen Braley]

jeff,

You certainly make great points, and I cant argue against them. 

However, fact remains is the natural desert is already there and a great resource to use and it rarely needs maintainence.  I wish other "Traditional" courses could say that where they are constantly having to maintain trees, shrubbery, or other vegetation to keep it in check....at a considerable cost I'm guessing.

P.S.  You could make a contrived setup and change the mowing lines so the best angles in the fairway flirts with the ca-ca.... But in general, I think desert terrain is best used as a forced carry, (especially when set on a  diagonal  to the line of play).

[Tim Leahy]

Does Iceplant grow there? Great natural hazard at Spyglass and several Cali courses.

[Garland Bayley]

Does Iceplant grow there? Great natural hazard at Spyglass and several Cali courses.

It's not a natural hazard, it's an invasive weed.

[Jon Wiggett]

I use clumps of sedge grass to great effect on my course. They create a very visible hazard which is a natural part of the inland/grassland landscape unlike sand. Thick enough that 99% of balls bounce off them and small enough that the ball is quickly found if it lodges in it. Low cost, low maintenance yet very effective.

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