[MCirba]

Last month I played Muirfield for my 1000th course and from an architectural standpoint it was everything I'd ever heard or imagined.   Thrilling bunkering that created wonderful strategic questions and an overall test of precision and golfing skill.

I was also pleased that it played very running and firm like a true links, and it's gorgeously beautiful to the eye, as well, with wonderful coloration and contrast.

However, as noted in the most recent version of the Confidential Guide, Ran and some others believe that Muirfield is not as good as it might be for everyday play because of the incredibly penal nature of the fescue grown along the sides of every fairway.   I believe they have a fair point, because the odds of finding a golf ball that wanders into this stuff (sometimes very perilously close to the preferred lines of play) were about 1 in 5 the day we played.   

Indeed, it was ironic to be at the club where the Rules were codified only to find it was nigh impossible to actually play by the rules, which required stroke and distance penalty for any lost ball(s).   Indeed, in the 40-50 mph winds we played that day we'd likely still be out there if we had to return to the tee each time a ball was lost in our group.

Recognizing that we had a somewhat extreme weather day, I'm not sure how much stock to put into our experiences but I'm certain that the wind blows pretty consistently over 15 mph out there which I'm rather sure leads to much the type of trepidation that overcame our group by the second 18.   With that type of maintenance, or lack thereof, of the roughs, how much does that detract generally  from the overall experience?   It was also the longest round of our trip, coming in at just over 3.5 hours per 18, with way too much time spent looking for golf balls. 

Is what we experienced the norm?   If so, Is there a reasonable solution for everyday play, or does the club enjoy inflicting that degree of challenge and frustration to those foolhardy enough to venture out there?

[Benjamin Litman]

Mike,


Thank you again for sharing your memories of Muirfield. That second picture is beautiful. It reminds me of, among other things, how blue skies in Scotland almost always bring high winds. 


I had a similar experience when I was fortunate enough to play Muirfield in September 2012. Everything that you describe--both positively and negatively--was as true for me then as for you just recently. Regarding the fescue, I am not sure what the club could do, short of changing the type of grass grown off the fairways. I believe the fescue at Muirfield is marram (but could be mistaken), similar to what's found at Barnbougle (a whitish fescue seldom seem but extra dense). To me, a rule change (i.e., Irish/lateral-hazard drop rule during all non-tournament rounds) seems like the best solution--likely as a local/club/buddies-specific measure and perhaps one applicable only in certain seasons when the rough is more dense and more impossible to extract balls from (assuming they can be found in the first place) than normal.


Notwithstanding the occasional rough patch, sounds like you had a wonderful round on a world-class course.


Congratulations again on reaching 1000, and hope all is well,


Benjamin

[K Rafkin]

Congratulations on your 1000th course played.


Like much of the Scottish coast, strong winds are not uncommon in East Lothian.  Did you really have 40-50mph winds?  A course that plays as F&F as Muirfield is practically unplayable in winds that strong.  Balls wouldn't stop on greens, and you would have a hard time even teeing the ball up.  The winds that rendered the old course unplayable this year were really only in the 30-40mph range.


I'm one those that believes that Muirfield is a 9 or 10 and is in no way underrated.  While I would bet that its high ranking is largely due to is exclusivity and pedigree, i don't think that the failure for most individuals to look beyond surface level should detract from how great Muirfield actually is.  Its an exceptional course with 18 above average holes.  I also think that in terms of ranking or rating courses its an important example to show that big dunes and signature holes aren't what makes a course great, and that strategy and thoughtful design trumps all.


I'm sure that i would grow tired of loosing balls in the fescue if i played Murifield everyday, however i don't play Muirifield everyday and neither do most.  If the rough was managed in a way that it was easier to find a ball, i certainly wouldn't object.  I wonder how many visitors go there looking to get beat up, and chalking it up as a part of the "Muirfield Experience".  Then again Muirfield isn't really a golf club, its "a social club, that happens to have a golf course" so i doubt they members are so concerned.

[Tim Gallant]

Congratulations on your 1000th course played.


Like much of the Scottish coast, strong winds are not uncommon in East Lothian.  Did you really have 40-50mph winds?  A course that plays as F&F as Muirfield is practically unplayable in winds that strong.  Balls wouldn't stop on greens, and you would have a hard time even teeing the ball up.  The winds that rendered the old course unplayable this year were really only in the 30-40mph range.


I'm one those that believes that Muirfield is a 9 or 10 and is in no way underrated.  While I would bet that its high ranking is largely due to is exclusivity and pedigree, i don't think that the failure for most individuals to look beyond surface level should detract from how great Muirfield actually is.  Its an exceptional course with 18 above average holes.  I also think that in terms of ranking or rating courses its an important example to show that big dunes and signature holes aren't what makes a course great, and that strategy and thoughtful design trumps all.


I'm sure that i would grow tired of loosing balls in the fescue if i played Murifield everyday, however i don't play Muirifield everyday and neither do most.  If the rough was managed in a way that it was easier to find a ball, i certainly wouldn't object.  I wonder how many visitors go there looking to get beat up, and chalking it up as a part of the "Muirfield Experience".  Then again Muirfield isn't really a golf club, its "a social club, that happens to have a golf course" so i doubt they members are so concerned.

Congratulations Mike on 1,000. To answer the previous post - I read that Mr. Cirba was going to play Muirfield on that day, and can say with 100% certainty, that the winds in East Lothian on that particular day were at least 25mph with gusts up to 40, so I don't think there was much hyperbole there.


I have only played Muirfield once, and fell in love. With regards to the rough, I happened to have one of those magical rounds when my game rose to the challenge and I played very tidy over 36 holes, meaning I didn't hit too many into the high stuff. That being said, I did stray on the occasional shot, and can only remember losing 1 ball (right of 7). Otherwise, like Mr. Pearce posted a few weeks back, I think the length of the rough at Muirfield is over-exaggerated. Certainly in areas it can be dense, but that is true of just about any East Lothian course. Go play Luffness in the height of Summer and I guarantee a group will lose a ball each over the course of 18. Or hit a tee ball left on 17 at Gullane 1. You won't be seen again.


Might also add that at Muirfield, the preferred (only) game for members is foursomes. By this logic, lost balls would become very difficult as two in the group will be halfway down the fairway, and will have a great spot on where the balls land (not to mention any caddies).

[Thomas Dai]

Congratulations on your 1,000th Mike.


A couple of comments on the rough at Muirfield.


Are there any time of year limitations for rough cutting, ie nesting birds etc?


Have the fairways got narrower and the rough more extensive since the days a couple of decades ago when folks played the course with balata and persimmon, which as I recall played a lot more curvy than modern day 460cc titanium and surlyn/urethene?


Did sheep and/or cattle ever graze Muirfield back in the early part of the last century?


Atb

[Michael Graham]

I had the pleasure of joining Mike and Gordon for Mike's landmark 1000th course. With regards to the weather, it was close to the strongest wind I've ever played in (that's saying something coming from the east coast of Scotland). The Met Office had issued an 'amber' weather warning for that Thursday. In the morning it would have been not far off gusting at 50mph. My caddie told me it was the strongest winds he'd experienced in the three years of looping at the club.

Not losing a ball in the afternoon was a personal highlight. By that stage, however, the winds had died down to a more manageable 30+mph. 

[MCirba]

We were so pleased to have Michael join us that day and he could not have been a better chap to spend such a momentous day with or a braver trooper to accompany us in such trying conditions.

He does mention the alfternoon calming to a 30mph gale but by then I'd developed a frightful case of St. Vitus Dance on each tee accompanied by recurring nightmares of endless journeys traipsing through knee high fescue searching for glimpses of white pellets.   

[David Davis]

Mike,


My hat is off to the 1000 mark. A Mark I doubt I will ever strive to reach but you never know, I will likely loose count once I reach the 500 mark.


In terms of fescue, when it's so thick you have absolutely not chance of finding a ball at all I agree that it's too much for sure. Ideally it's quite easy to find your ball but challenging to hit a perfect strike out of, so about a half club penalty. Losing your ball in it is not fun and slows down rounds too much.


That beings said, as a member of a links course that at times in the last few years has had some of the worst most unforgiving ball losing fescue rough I agree that it's just too much for daily play let alone daily play in high wind. It does teach you to control your ball flight to keep the ball in play in the wind.


The problem from a maintenance issue is that it's so heavily dependent on the weather. A wet summer keeps things lush and while it usually burns out by June or July and then is perfect, if it's really wet there is nothing you can do about it. We also had the problem that too many other grasses contaminated the fescue making it for too thick and lush near the ground. Some courses like ours are not allowed to do any maintenance in the deep grass areas during the bird mating season. For us that runs from about June through mid August I believe. That means if it's wet during this time and the grass becomes lush as a green keeping staff your hands are tied by environmental laws and regulations. I'm not sure if that's the case with Muirfield but it certainly could be.

[MCirba]

Thanks, everyone.   I really appreciate all of the additional information and variables that play into links fescue growth, many of which sound to be outside the direct control of the clubs themselves.

I'm not sure if any or all is the case with Muirfield, but like David Davis, I'd love to see it where the ball is find-able and averages as half-stroke penalty.   That's much more fun than lost balls.

Lest anyone think I'm being unfairly critical of the links courses abroad, I had much the same criticism of Bayonne Golf Club here in the states, a terrific layout that would be no fun at all if one started to spray their ball a bit due to thick, impenetrable fescue roughs.

[Gary Gruber]

I'm lucky enough to play Muirfield most years.


While Fescue and Marram are components of the rough, there are several other types in the tall grass, some of which are not conducive to tall,wispy, playable roughs.


The recent summers on the east coast of Scotland certainly add to the difficulties in producing playable roughs.


Gary.

[Niall C]

The penal nature of rough on links will generally vary with the season with the rough being generally more playable in the winter months with the lack of growth and the wind and the rain beating it down. It also makes a difference if the course is busy as foot traffic also helps greatly to batter it down.


That said, I'm in the Tim G and Mark P camp in that I think the penalty of the rough is over stated. I suspect the biggest mistake made by those unfamiliar with a traditional links set up is failing to adapt their game to the course rather than assuming you can hit away with a degree of impunity.


I'd be interested to know from the two Michael's how often they chose to hit something other than driver in order to keep the ball in play ?


Niall

[Niall C]

Forgot to add, terrific photos.

[MCirba]

Niall,

Thanks, it really was a glorious day for taking a few pics and I hope to share more of them over time.

As far as clubbing down from driver, great question.   Frankly, I didn't.   When it's virtually impossible to set the club behind the ball with any stability (the driver head was literally blowing around!!), the extra weight of the driver was an easy choice over the lighter, flimsier 3-metal.   

[David Whitmer]

I played Muirfield in early May, 2013 (the year they hosted The Open). The fescue was not bad at all...if a ball went in, it was found every time. Advancing it more than 80 or so yards was not easy, but you could always get a club on the ball.

Our caddies told us the fescue would not be cut before The Open.

I wonder if the fescue is cut back at the end/start of a golf season, and it is allowed to grow unchecked during the season?

I do remember thinking that if a ball reaches the fescue, it is far enough off line that the penalty seemed reasonable. I also agree with Niall, that one should adapt their game to keep the ball away from the most daunting hazards on the course. Scaling back, especially on the tee, may not allow you to reach every green in regulation, but it should allow you to find your ball and hit it again.

[RJ_Daley]

During my rounds at St. Andrews and Crail, and much lesser extent Leven,  I noted the rough was variable.  On the Eden and Jubilee courses, the rough was very lush.  I played those without a caddie, and not knowing distances and likely places where certain lines of ball flight would end up in semi-bind areas, I lost plenty of balls on those two courses.  However, with an official St. Andrews caddie, and much more managed rough on The Old Course, which held the Dunhill Cup the week before (thus crowds probably tramped rough down) I only lost one ball, and the caddie clubbed me and tacked me around in a more managed route that was of great assistance to my game.

Thus, my question or wondering if a combination of unusually wet summer which may have had the effect of thickening up the rough throughout the area, or is it a matter of cultural turf management practices, fertilizing migration into rough areas and some sort of thinning practice. 

Ireland also apparently had an unusual wet summer and the rough on some of the courses I played was fairly thick, although I'd say not as much as those on east coast of Scotland that I saw.

Yet, the rough at Leven seemed less lush than those at Crail, and St. Andrews.  So, I have no idea what is going on there.  But Leven was very playable and findable for the most part.

Perhaps the answer is 'rent a crowd' and have them walk through the roughs and tramp them down.... 

[MCirba]

How would folks feel if each hole were lined with ponds down the length of each hole? 

[Michael Graham]

As Mike already mentioned, driver off most tees seemed the prudent play as it felt you had a bit more control with the weight and mass of a driver vs fairway wood. I actually had a pretty good driving day. The balls I lost off the tee were due to poor swings and would most likely have been lost on a relatively calm day. I lost a ball in high rough at the back of the 7th green which was frustrating as I thought I'd hit not a bad tee shot.


What was clear about the rough was almost without exception you knew once the ball left the club whether it was going to be found or not. You were almost without exception playing from the fairway or you dropped a ball roughly in line where it went into thick stuff. There was very little chance for recovery shots from the rough.


Despite the crazy high winds I thought the course was magnificent. I thought it was one great hole after another. I'm looking forward to getting the chance to someday go back and play it in more manageable weather.

[BCrosby]

How would folks feel if each hole were lined with ponds down the length of each hole?

On my first visit to Scotland, that is how Muirfield and the front nine at Royal Aberdeen played. Anything off line was effectively a lost ball. So I played the rough as a parallel water hazard.

Not all links courses play like the expansive links courses I had expected to see.  During some summers some play tee to green like a bad Florida course.

It was a relief (and delight) to later play TOC, the New, NB, KB, Gullane, Dornoch and others.

Bob

[Niall C]

Mike/Michael


Interesting you both chose the driver. I sometimes hit the driver ahead of my two wood if I'm feeling "rusty" and want to be sure of getting it airborne and not thinning/topping/heeling or any of the other rotten shots I have in my repertoire. However if I'm looking for accuracy I generally go for a fairway wood especially in strong winds where the bigger the club head the more the drag factor.


How wide were the fairways anyway ?


Niall

[MCirba]

Niall,

For anything less than a 15mph wind I'd say the fairways were ample enough once the visual intimidation factor from many tees were sufficiently calmed and you realized the holes had more width than might appear at first glance.

However, in the type of winds we played, I'm not sure what would be wide enough honestly.   To give an example, Michael hit a fairway wood shot on #9 (our 18th hole of the morning) that appeared to have been struck with authority and precision.   It started off directly on target and as it started to rise a gust literally blew the ball sideways as blithely as a ping pong ball over the OB fence left.   

That's another reason fairway woods from the tee were probably not going to be desirable unless one can hit them neck high.

[JJShanley]

OT, but the worst part of going home comes when I realize I can't hit the ball low any longer.  I spent my teens wishing I could hit high-trajectory iron shots, but since living in the U.S. I've forgotten how to play links golf.  (Honorable mention for my bump-and-run technique around the greens.)

[Michael Graham]

Mike/Michael


Interesting you both chose the driver. I sometimes hit the driver ahead of my two wood if I'm feeling "rusty" and want to be sure of getting it airborne and not thinning/topping/heeling or any of the other rotten shots I have in my repertoire. However if I'm looking for accuracy I generally go for a fairway wood especially in strong winds where the bigger the club head the more the drag factor.


How wide were the fairways anyway ?



Niall

That was my thinking as well Niall. At least a half decent shot with a driver will go a reasonable distance without ballooning up in the air too much. My bad shot with the driver is a slightly low heely one which isn't too punishing in high winds.


To give you an idea of wind strength, it was comparable to our round at North Berwick in May with Tony Muldoon.


I couldn't say with much accuracy the width of the fairways in feet or yards but you certainly weren't standing on the tees struggling to see fairway. If it had been even a normal October's day for East Lothian the course would have been eminently playable.


My lost ball on the 9th in our morning round was my low point of the day, well apart from not having enough space after lunch for pudding. 

[MCirba]

I may be wrong but it does appear that Michael Graham is taking a bit less than driver on the downwind 3rd, looking quite stylish at that!   The visual intimidation is fairly evident here as well.

[Niall C]

visual intimidation !?!


Are you referring to the trousers ?


Niall

[Michael Graham]

Surely if there's any club you can rock a pair of red trousers at it's The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers. If I'd tried that at Carrick Knowe or Silverknowes on the other hand...

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