Is there a better Road Hole in America than Shoreacres #10?

[Jason Way]

I just got out to Shoreacres for the first time since the renovation work (which is across the board outstanding).  I was particularly taken by the Road Hole.  It is gorgeous and a blast to play. 


This is the fourth MacRaynor I have played this year (Chicago GC, Camargo, Blue Mound being the others) and sixth overall (NGLA, Piping Rock in previous years), and I cannot recall a better Road Hole in the bunch.  Further, I cannot recall playing a better Road Hole homage in the U.S. by any other architect either. 


I took some photos to illustrate the elements that make it so compelling to me:


The ravine makes for a beautiful and fun-to-tackle stand-in for the maintenance building, especially now that the trees have been cleared back so far.





There is out of bounds right, but still a little bit of room to get lucky if the tee ball doesn't get up top onto the fairway. Recoveries from down below are no bargain, but fun to take on.





The Road Hole bunker is much deeper and nastier than it appears in this picture, and holding the green (especially with today's front pin position) takes real touch from there.  They have widened the fairway left and it continues all the way around the left side of the green into a really cool runoff area. 





The angle and shape of this green is the closest I have seen to the original at TOC.  In this view from back left, the bunkers used to stand in for the road are visible.  In speaking with the Superintendent Brian Palmer, greens are running at peak speeds of 13+ - with the wind blowing and that speed, this green must be impossible to hit.





For me, all of the devilish elements of the original are there, and they are beautifully done at Shoreacres.  Is there a better Road Hole?  Bring on the arguments...

[Jon Cavalier]

It's a fabulous hole, no question. I'd nominate the Road Holes at NGLA, Chicago Golf and Piping Rock as the primary contenders, but I'm not sure I could say that either is definitively better than 10 at Shoreacres. North Shore on Long Island also has an excellent Road template, and I liked Blue Mound's version also. Regardless, Shoreacres is certainly among the top of my list as well.

Great photos, by the way.

[Bill Vogeney]

You had me at "Shoreacres."


Envious of your MacDonald/Raynor collection. I can only claim Shoreacres and Yale so far. One can dream.


I recall the pin was way right the day I played it and since I played a very conservative line off the tee, I had a long iron in and played it left. Made an incredible two putt-illustrating the allure of their design philosophy

[Steve Salmen]

Jason,

The 10th at SA is not only my favorite hole on the course (by far), it is one of my favorite holes in the world.  I think the way the hole flows  along the ditch makes it feel like could have been there forever.  Regardless of age, the stone wall at TOC was still a man made impediment to be circumnavigated.

The Road Bunker at SA is very playable, no steep face at all.  A tough but fair hole given it's length.  I think the biggest challenge is getting off the tee properly.

[Tommy Williamsen]

To be honest I didn't notice that it was a "road hole" when I played it years ago but thought as I walked off the green that it had all the features necessary for a rendition. It is a great hole but so are the ones at NGLA and Piping Rock, as others have pointed out.  The greens were not nearly as fast as when you played it but think that 13 might be over the edge for some holes.

[Ian Andrew]

Yes, I think the one at Huntington CC (Emmet) is better

[Joe Bausch]

To see more of Emmet's wonderful road hole at Huntington, go here:


http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Huntington/pages/page_35.html?

[Jason Way]

Thanks for sharing the link to the photos Joe.


Ian, why do you prefer Emmet's Road Hole?

[J_ Crisham]

For me its #2 at Chicago Golf. The green complex is visually more stunning and the bunkers up the right side on the tee shot are not the place to be. More penal IMO than being down in the grassy swale at SA. The bail out left at SA off the tee is not a bad spot to be- an approach left short of the green allows for a relatively simple up and down. The front of the green on #2 at CGC is more severe. Both terrific holes- splitting hairs. Now the 11th at SA is a hole to discuss!

[Tim Martin]

I can't say it's better than Shoreacres but Yale 4 is a good one.

[David Whitmer]

Jason,

When I walked off Shoreacres after playing it a few years ago, I said the exact same thing! Though to that point I had only seen others at Chicago GC and Camargo, I declared Shoreacres my favorite in part because the area to the left of the road bunker was short, fairway grass, which obviously is like the original. The hole was cut back left, and I was able to choose to play my approach left of the road bunker. That option isn't available at Chicago GC or Camargo.

I then played the original at St. Andrews, and was even more convinced that Shoreacres did it right. But then earlier this year I played Old Macdonald, and that course's version became my favorite. I thought the bunker was as difficult as the original...Shoreacres's bunker is not deep enough I believe. Also, Old Mac's green is closer to the original in my opinion.

[Phil McDade]

Jason:


I haven't played any of those mentioned here, but I did think the Road Hole at Blue Mound was a very good version of the template -- maybe one of the best template holes at Blue Mound. A very deep greenside bunker left, a wrap-around and (again) very deep bunker replicating the road in back, a long, angled fairway bunker right to mimic the shacks, and a really good green, tilted strongly from back left to front right. Doesn't have the interesting terrain of Shoreacres, but I thought it was a terrific Road Hole.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

I have not played an abundance of Road Holes, but I feel I have a decent grasp of "stronger" and "weaker" examples. Camargo's Road Hole (No. 17), gets knocked a little bit, and sure, maybe it's not as strong as the other 17 holes, but it's still not too bad.


Elkridge's Road Hole impressed me, but I went in with lower expectations.


Up until a few weeks ago, Yale's Road Hole (No. 4) was my favorite iteration. Very strong, but also difficult (though not unfair) for the average player I feel, as it is a long par four.


What about the Road Hole at Fishers Island? I played it for the first time this fall and very much liked it. It demands a good drive over the dunes if players want to challenge the green in two, and the front bunker is nothing to be fooled with, on either the second or third shot (it plays as a par five from all tees expect the Black markers), not to mention you do not want to go long. A layup or bailout to the right of the green gives players many options, including to putt, chip, pitch or flop the ball onto the green; all of which are viable. I really liked the green too...lots of interest in it.


I have not played Shoreacres, so I am certainly not disagreeing with you on their Road Hole...I'm just bringing up my experience with others.


Here are some of the images I took of the hole:

[Ian Mackenzie]

.

[Nigel Islam]

Jason, I would give a slight edge to #8 at Piping Rock, but I totally agree the road hole at Shoreacres is right there with it. Full disclosure I have heard, but not seen that the road hole at Chicago is excellent.

[Jon Cavalier]

Regardless of whether it's best, it's a fantastic hole. The fairway is gorgeous:



When I played, the pin was all the way left - a treacherous spot. I intentionally aimed 5 yards left of the green and made par by putting from the left apron.




The green itself is large and subtly undulated, making a safe approach to the right side far from a guaranteed par.



Fantastic golf hole.

[Andrew Simpson]

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain to me what a "Road Hole" is?
[/size]Seeing the title I assumed it would be a hole with a very strong similarity to the 17th at TOC but so far I see that it shouldn't have a wall and the other "Road Holes" are set in trees, alongside a beach, shallow bunkers, no road, raised fairways, fall offs in the landing areas, turning left, greens at 13+, I'm sure I've missed a few other features. Help please!

[Terry Lavin]

Old Mac gets my vote.

[BHoover]

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain to me what a "Road Hole" is?
[/size]Seeing the title I assumed it would be a hole with a very strong similarity to the 17th at TOC but so far I see that it shouldn't have a wall and the other "Road Holes" are set in trees, alongside a beach, shallow bunkers, no road, raised fairways, fall offs in the landing areas, turning left, greens at 13+, I'm sure I've missed a few other features. Help please!

Folks would rather point out which courses they've played than explain this.

I also am still waiting for a reasoned explanation as to why one version of the template is better than others. We've seen photos, but how about a discussion in addition to some pretty pictures?

[K Rafkin]

Having not yet played every road hole in the US I'm not fully qualified to crown a winner, however i will say that my favorite is Old Mac 11.


My reasoning is that every quality that makes 17 on the Old Course so great, is present at Old Mac 11 (aside from a hotel to drive over).

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain to me what a "Road Hole" is?
Seeing the title I assumed it would be a hole with a very strong similarity to the 17th at TOC but so far I see that it shouldn't have a wall and the other "Road Holes" are set in trees, alongside a beach, shallow bunkers, no road, raised fairways, fall offs in the landing areas, turning left, greens at 13+, I'm sure I've missed a few other features. Help please!

Folks would rather point out which courses they've played than explain this.

I also am still waiting for a reasoned explanation as to why one version of the template is better than others. We've seen photos, but how about a discussion in addition to some pretty pictures?

The Road Hole template is indeed based off of the hole of the same name at the Old Course (TOC). From my basic understanding, most Road Hole templates include a drive with an option to carry an obstacle (the hotel), such as a bunker, mounding, hillside, etc. The green complexes in the templates typically feature a small-ish, deep-ish front bunker and longer back bunker (the road). The green also typically has an opening to the opposite of the front bunker allowing run-up shots. I have seen Road Hole templates dogleg both left and right and the front bunker placed on either side of the green. Also, not every template has a back bunker (eitehr by design or lost overtime).

I can say why I personally prefer the Road Hole at FI compared to others I have played: Interest - The tee shot on the FI Road Hole really gets your attention. The water hazard on the left side comes into play for those not wanting to block (or pull) their tee shots onto the beach. However, a weaker drive may carry the dunes (hotel), but may not carry far enough over the ridge to get a lot of roll, thus brining a more manageable second shot into play. Depending on where the golfer hits his or her drive, the second shot brings in a lot of choices: Go for the green or layup? Layup to a full yardage or hit to the right of the green for a putt or chip? How aggressive of a line does the golfer want for a third if laying up? The greenside bunkers and features really come into play here.

Compared to other Road Holes, I have played, FI is a bit better in this regard. Camargo's Road Hole for one, at the current time, lacks a bit of interest on the tee shot, in my opinion. There is not much of an obstacle to carry for a better shot into the green and a weak drive in either direction doesn't look that much different than a well-struck drive (aside from a lie in the rough, of course). Elkridge's Road Hole drive is pretty solid and really requires a golfer to pick his or her line. To be more aggressive off the tee is to hit to the left side over the bunker (the opposite of TOC), however, I would argue that the more aggressive line off the tee (left) leaves a much more difficult shot into the green, as opposed to more traditional Road Hole designs (and the original of course). Yale's is pretty strong; the tee shot can play games with the golfer's mind as the fairway appears to be more narrow than it is...it's actually quite wide. I haven't played the Road Hole at TOC, so maybe this is a better homage. Over the green is dead at Yale, as is the case with most Road Holes, but I feel as though the length of Yale's version restrict's the golfer's second shot options more so than other versions of the same hole.

These are, of course, only my opinions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[BCrosby]

Andrew Simpson is perplexed and I don't blame him. The Road Holes I've seen on US courses pale in comparison with the original. Mostly for the reasons Andrew gives.


(I have not seen the Road Hole at Old Mac. Perhaps it breaks the mold of US versions and lives up to its namesake.)


Bob

[Adam Clayman]

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain to me what a "Road Hole" is?
Seeing the title I assumed it would be a hole with a very strong similarity to the 17th at TOC but so far I see that it shouldn't have a wall and the other "Road Holes" are set in trees, alongside a beach, shallow bunkers, no road, raised fairways, fall offs in the landing areas, turning left, greens at 13+, I'm sure I've missed a few other features. Help please!

[BHoover]

Thank you, Matt. Your explanation was helpful.

[Phil McDade]

I also am still waiting for a reasoned explanation as to why one version of the template is better than others. We've seen photos, but how about a discussion in addition to some pretty pictures?

Brian:

I think Jon C. gets at this with his explanation of how he approached the Road Hole at Shoreacres. The Road Hole at The Old Course, perhaps as well as any hole there, embodies the recurring strategic element found on many of TOC's holes -- the safer play left off the tee results in a more difficult and challenging approach shot; the riskier shot off the tee (right), successfully executed, yields a more inviting and easier approach shot. The Road Hole in its original design is a pure example example of a risk/reward hole.

So I think the answer to your observation might be: What Road Hole provides a greater sense of reward for the risks one is willing to take, and by the same token a greater sense of risk for the path taken that is less riskier at the start (off the tee)? Jon C., perhaps appropriately averse to the risk of taking on the ravine and OB right at Shoreacres, took his tee shot down the left side, and was essentially left with no (or too risky of a...) shot at the green, a product of both the hole design and pin that day. Although I'd stress I haven't played Shoreacres, Jon's ability to par it by playing left of the trouble (and that the hole design and maintenance allows that) makes me think it holds less terror than, say, the original at St. Andrews.