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Will Lozier

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Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« on: October 22, 2015, 02:47:40 PM »
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 02:58:15 PM by Will Lozier »

Tom_Doak

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 07:05:53 PM »
Will:


The course opened this summer.


That's two of my former interns who worked on it.  The client called our office to start with, but it was a very small project and we were spread pretty thin, so I referred him to Mike McCartin, who lives close by in Arlington.  Mike designed it and enlisted Brett Hochstein to help shape it; my old friend Tom Mead did the agronomy.  No finder's fee for me, but I hear it turned out great for everyone involved.

Howard Riefs

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« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 07:55:23 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Will Lozier

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 07:47:09 PM »
Tom,


It appears the maintenance is minimal - 1.4 acres of irrigated turf?! - as is the architecture. Very cool concept and seemingly great timing for such a venture. I've spent a bit of time looking into Askernish recently and the simple concept of each is so appealing right now. Have you seen Schoolhouse Nine in person? Do you plan to? Can you speak to it's uniqueness to any extent?


Cheers

Tom_Doak

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 09:38:30 PM »
Tom,


It appears the maintenance is minimal - 1.4 acres of irrigated turf?! - as is the architecture. Very cool concept and seemingly great timing for such a venture. I've spent a bit of time looking into Askernish recently and the simple concept of each is so appealing right now. Have you seen Schoolhouse Nine in person? Do you plan to? Can you speak to it's uniqueness to any extent?



I have not seen the course, though Mike has shown me a bunch of pictures.  I was invited to the opening, but I barely have enough time to go to the openings of my own courses!  I know the young men were geeked about what they built and I would expect it to be pretty cool, although at a very small scale.

David_Tepper

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 09:58:38 PM »
A lot more courses like this would benefit the game greatly.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 10:14:06 PM »
A lot more courses like this would benefit the game greatly.


Agreed ... IF they are in locations where they will be well used.

MikeMcCartin

Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 11:24:47 PM »
Tom,


It appears the maintenance is minimal - 1.4 acres of irrigated turf?!


Cheers


Hi Will - You're right, the maintenance at the Schoolhouse Nine is minimal. We're only irrigating the nine greens on the course and the practice putting green, the sum of which makes up the 1.4 acre total you found.

On top of that - and I wasn't necessarily expecting this when we started the project - I think we made an even more radical departure from the status quo in golf course construction by building push up greens in the native clay loam topsoil using only surface drainage (no tile). Building courses for Tom, I've participated in a number of projects where the greens were shaped in the native soil on site, but all of those were in beautiful sand. As far as I can tell, there is no one with any recent grow-in experience for greens in clay loam...which might be a doable hurdle for a grizzled veteran greenskeeper but is not the easiest situation for someone brand new at the job (as we have at the Schoolhouse Nine). That said, the greens have made it through the first year in fine condition - they have always been surprisingly consistent and smooth and two weeks ago on my last visit they were running at a nice speed.

The rest of the course, being unirrigated, is in the midst of a multi-year grow in period as the progress is very much weather dependent. It is totally playable now but will only get better as the super seeds a fescue/bent/blue mix into the existing "volunteer" grasses on site.

Jason Way

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 11:50:27 PM »
Great stuff Mike.  I have enjoyed following your project from afar and look forward to getting out to play it.  It is a source of inspiration.


Can you share a little bit about the bunkering that you and Brett did?  Is it also minimal?  And if so, what kind of features did you use in addition to bunkering to create interest and provide challenge?


And as a side note so that this thread doesn't get lost in the mix, Will, could you please add Schoolhouse Nine to the subject?  It would be nice to be able to keep the discussion of such a cool, new course like this alive and in one place.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

MikeMcCartin

Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 11:53:05 PM »
Tom,


Very cool concept and seemingly great timing for such a venture. I've spent a bit of time looking into Askernish recently and the simple concept of each is so appealing right now. Have you seen Schoolhouse Nine in person? Do you plan to? Can you speak to it's uniqueness to any extent?


Cheers


Whether it was our direct intention or not, a lot of what we are trying to accomplish with the course runs counter to the prevailing trends in the industry and hits on some of the hot-button issues in golf today, including the time it takes to play a round (the Schoolhouse Nine, as a nine hole par three course, takes about an hour to walk), the cost of the game (the course is $10-20 per round, with an even lower rate for juniors), and the impact of high resource utilization on the environment (the Schoolhouse Nine has minimal irrigation, basically no chemical use, playing conditions at a slightly higher height of cut to withstand seasonal pressures, etc).


I think a lot of those factors contribute to the uniqueness of the course - but, personally, the point that I would like to emphasize is that there is no reason why a course that is super affordable and sustainably maintained cannot also have really engaging and fun architecture. It does not cost more to build and maintain cool golf. That point may be relatively easily digested here, but there aren't many examples of approachable, inexpensive courses where the architecture shoots for much more than something very basic and bland.

Jason Way

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2015, 09:32:15 AM »
...the point that I would like to emphasize is that there is no reason why a course that is super affordable and sustainably maintained cannot also have really engaging and fun architecture. It does not cost more to build and maintain cool golf. That point may be relatively easily digested here, but there aren't many examples of approachable, inexpensive courses where the architecture shoots for much more than something very basic and bland.


Amen to that brother.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Dave Doxey

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 11:31:57 AM »
A lot more courses like this would benefit the game greatly.


Agreed ... IF they are in locations where they will be well used.


Time will tell if this course is financially sustainable.   Low construction and maintenance costs are a plus to financial success.  Low greens fees and remote location are a minus.  Let's hope that it works.  Rounds played numbers will be interesting.

Randy Thompson

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Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2015, 11:45:52 AM »
I was getting ready to write what Dave just wrote, the foundation of controlling investment and low maintenance cost gets an A plus but time will tell if they can make the numbers work. I think it´s a great road to go down but to financially  work in a highly populated área it seems the initial land cost would work against the numbers. But, there are a lot of situations where the land could be donated that would tilt the scales back in the correct directions of financial sustainable
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 11:47:58 AM by Randy Thompson »

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2015, 12:01:04 PM »
Awesome model, and I hope it works.

Wouldn't it make sense for an operator to have multiple such facilities in various areas so that volume is the key to financial longevity? I would think it difficult to make a go of it with just one of these under your belt.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Peter Pallotta

Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2015, 08:45:18 PM »
Awesome model, and I hope it works.


Wouldn't it make sense for an operator to have multiple such facilities in various areas so that volume is the key to financial longevity? I would think it difficult to make a go of it with just one of these under your belt.

I would never have thought of this idea/approach in a million years, but it seems to make much good sense. Perhaps the owner should quickly copyright "Schoolhouse Nine", so he can have "Schoolhouse Nine - Virginia", "Schoolhouse Nine - Raleigh", "Schoolhouse Nine - Austin" etc. 

Mike - my sincere congratulations. You got something very good, and very well worth doing, under your belt and to your name. I have high hopes for its success, but I also hope that you won't let whatever degree of success it has sway you from doing the kind of work that makes sense to you. (Some people love to focus on the sometimes unfulfilled promise of a project that doesn't check all the "right" boxes -- very conveniently forgetting how many hugely budgeted projects that DO check all the "right" boxes have failed or struggle constantly.)

Peter

MikeMcCartin

Re: Throwback Course?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2015, 03:02:23 AM »

Can you share a little bit about the bunkering that you and Brett did?  Is it also minimal?  And if so, what kind of features did you use in addition to bunkering to create interest and provide challenge?



Jason -


There are only nine bunkers on the course, so I think the most minimal aspect of the bunkering scheme was simply keeping the numbers down. The bunkers come in clusters - the 2nd, 3rd, 8th, and 9th have two bunkers each, while the 1st, 5th, 6th, and 7th have none. The 5th through 7th interact with the major topographical feature on the property – a 10-15 foot ridge – so its not necessarily surprising that they are unbunkered.





The image above (taken from my Instagram feed linked earlier in this thread) shows the 8th (bottom) and 9th (top) holes and gives a good feel for the bunkering there on the course. Rte 211 parallels the 8th and 9th and is the main road into the area from the east. The first real glimpse of the course from the road is the bunker on the 8th hole – my goal was to build something big and cool enough that it would catch and hold the attention of drivers as they passed and hopefully pique curiosity about the course. The bunkering on the 9th is there to mess with depth perception on one of the longest holes on the course and provide visual separation between the green and the first tee (which is behind and left of the left-most bunker).


From a maintenance perspective, the bunkers are shaped with surrounding slopes that could be easily mowed with a big riding mower – there are only two heights of cut (green height and everything else) so keeping things simple is important. The bunkers do have some “roll over” lip to them, but so far there hasn’t been enough growth on the faces to require mowing. In the long run, my thought is those lips can be mowed much less often than the rest of the course and have minimal impact on the playability of the course.


Aside from bunkering, the interest, challenge and fun of the course comes from shaping of the green sites and the natural contour of the land. I was worried that the course would seem very similar day-to-day – par three courses inherently lack the variance in approach angle and distance that occur naturally on par 4s and 5s – but I’m really happy with the variety we were able to build into it. My goal was for each hole to take on a (sometimes significantly) different feel as the hole location moved front-to-back and side-to-side on the green.


The first hole – located in a wide open, very gently sloped field – is a good example. The front of the green is a wide, low trench that is partially obscured by a mound in front of the green. The back of the green is atop a sharp ridge that narrows and falls off to the rear. Front hole locations are about using the ridge to keep a tee shot in the trench while holes in the back of the green have to climb the ridge without running through the green.





This is a picture of the first green during grow-in before the surrounds germinated. The angle of play is from slightly right of the angle shown in the picture.
 

JC Urbina

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Re: Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2015, 12:12:50 PM »
Will,


I find the concept interesting and very simple in its presentation.  M-n-M as I like to call Mike is a perfect fit for this type of concept. I always though that Mike could probably build a golf course all by himself.  He wasn't afraid of the hand work, he was creative and willing to do whatever it took to get the job done, I know because Mike helped us build the first phase at Old Mac. 


I am just glad he is getting the recognition he is due.  I look forward to seeing what He and Brett have come up with in person. 


Mike,


I really like the inside roll on your green, a perfect compliment to effective but manageable green contours.

Jason Way

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Re: Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2015, 12:32:54 PM »
Outstanding Mike.  Thank you for sharing more insights.  Perhaps it is just wishful thinking on my part, but I still believe that people are capable of appreciating subtle brilliance, even in this era of sensory overload.


The low maintenance profile is also glorious.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Brett Hochstein

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Re: Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2015, 04:21:44 PM »
This was probably one of the more fun and unique projects that I will ever be involved in, and I believe that sort of spirit shows up in the final product.  The green complexes really are the highlight and have great variety both from hole to hole and from day to day within greens, even the tiny ones like the 5th and 6th, which are both skinny and tilted but situated at totally different angles and heights. It being a par-3 course, we pushed the envelope as far as we could while still maintaining sense and reason.  Like Mike also said, they were easy to build as well since we just used surface drainage and the native soil.  The tie-ins are thus already there.


I haven't been back yet since the finish, but I am greatly looking forward to it.  My wish is that it falls during a droughty part of summer and the already bouncy surrounds are even bouncier. ;D   Sperryville (and Rappahannock County) is a great place in general--a unique enclave at the base of Shenandoah National Park.  And given the course starts and ends at the Headmaster's Pub on the edge of the small town, it has a very personal and social feel to it that is almost like what you would find in rural Scotland or Ireland.  With that and the things Mike already alluded to, The Schoolhouse Nine has all the basic tenets of golf that we believe in. It's fun, affordable, environmentally sensible, time flexible, and communal.  I'm thankful to both Mike and Cliff Miller, the owner, for letting me be involved. 
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

JBovay

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Re: Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 08:02:33 PM »

I stopped by the Schoolhouse Nine last Friday morning, and really liked what I saw. The shaping of the greens was easily more interesting than most courses I've played in the United States. I greatly enjoyed that it took me less than 45 minutes to play, as a single, taking my time. I'd highly recommend it to anyone in the general vicinity who has a couple of hours to make a detour and play. It's right on the route between DC and the best part of Shenandoah National Park (the central part), and not far out of the way from Richmond or Charlottesville to that part of Shenandoah.


Highlights:
The putting green reminded me of the Himalayas.
The natural-looking tiers on the 1st, 2nd, and 7th greens reminded me of the 12th at The Old Course.
The 3rd green is somewhat obscured by a bunker from the tee and slopes, gently, front to back.
The tiny greens at 5 and 6 are exactly the challenge you need from ~80 yards.
The very back of the green on the uphill, semi-blind 7th is lower than the front 3/4.
9 is a bit Redan-ish, but with an 8-iron, the opportunity to draw the ball in is limited.
I liked that it wasn't necessary to bring more than a 7-iron, and also that you could leave your bag by the 4th green and use just your shortest wedge and a putter for the next 3 holes.
Without a scorecard or yardage indicators of any kind, this was a great test of feel. (Maybe they had scorecards in the pub, but nobody was there when I arrived.)


Mike and Brett did a great job here, and should really be commended.


I will caution readers, however, that the conditioning is not stellar. The greens were true, but s l o w. There was a lot of rain the day before (during the first round of the U.S. Open) so this was to be expected. I'll say it again: they putted true. More problematic: there is just one height of cut through the green, but it was at least an inch, maybe two, last week. Hopefully, as the volunteer grasses give way to the fescue/bent/blue mix, they'll be able to mow it more closely. It's awkward trying to hit a wedge from that rough when you're teeing off. However, I will say that I missed an embarrassing number of greens and not once did I draw a bad lie in the rough.


By not mowing the tees closely, there is a possibility of the angles of holes changing drastically from day to day. For a special challenge--for tournaments?--the routing could be adjusted, too: playing to the 7th green from the 4th tee, and then proceeding backward to the 4th green before teeing off on 8.


If the Schoolhouse Nine were near my house, I'd play it every day. If courses like this were built in urban areas, golf would soar in popularity. 20 acres, $10 per round if you buy a punchcard, 1 hour to play when crowded, interesting greens that require precise short irons... what a great formula.

David Harshbarger

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Re: Throwback Course - Schoolhouse Nine
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2016, 09:19:17 PM »
Very cool course, Mike.  I like the low input model and the low maintenance costs.  Looks like maintenance is mowing and...mowing, and then not too much of either!


Hope the course is successful!  Would definitely play when in the area. 


I'm adding to my "to play" list!
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

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