Cabot Cliffs - With Photos - Hole 18 Posted

[Bill Brightly]

Hole 15
529 Yards
Par 5







View from the tee






From the right side of the landing zone





and just over the crest of the hill from the right, with the green coming into view.  As the second plays back downhill the green is reachable in 2.

I'd like to play this hole more before making final judgement, but I am not a fan after my two plays. I like the look of the tee shot and hit two solid drives to the right side of the fairway. Both times me second shot was SO blind, I had no idea where to aim. I knew there was a centerline bunker, but it would have required a 40-50 yard walk forward to figure it out.

[Brad Tufts]

Hi Bill,

I liked the blind feature, and the fact that the yardage meant nothing.  Walking forward isn't a bad thing, especially if you have a good chance for birdie.

It will be interesting, however, to see if 15 becomes a bottleneck.  During my third round I played right and hit a drive that went maybe 345y, and the guys behind us were hitting into us from the back tees figuring there was no way they could hit that far.  One thing for sure was that there were no quick rounds to be had at the Cliffs.  Beautiful scenery does that!!

[Charlie_Bell]

With six par 3's, there may be bottlenecks galore, but with world-class scenery -- at a destination course, with no commitments to rush home to -- few players will mind. 

[John Kirk]

Ben,

Thanks again for the course tour.  Just a couple of observations.

1.  I am fascinated by the short 9th hole.  The approach to the green looks like it belongs on a 200 yard hole.  It has an austere look that few short par 3s possess.  And what a view.  Beautiful golf hole.

2.  I see three bunker complexes that look like noses, the 2nd (complete with facial hair), the 14th (even though there are three bunkers in the mid-green complex) and the 17th.

3. To me, that smooth transition from fairway to green on downhill holes like the 9th, 12th, 15th and 17th may be the quintessential Coore/Crenshaw feature.  Just a little bit wrinkled; not much.  I find the look very enticing.

[cary lichtenstein]

Thank you for posting and the photos, felt like I was there. Wish I could still play, I'd be there in 1 day


So much I liked from the photos and can only imagine how much better in person

[Tom_Doak]

One thing for sure was that there were no quick rounds to be had at the Cliffs.

That is one down side of having six par-3's and six par-5's, that the fans of the set-up don't bring up much.


I've never heard from Bandon whether the back nine at Pacific Dunes plays a lot slower than the front.  It isn't so obvious since #10 tee is out in the middle of the course.

[Chris DeToro]

It was quite interesting having 6 par 5s and 3s.  Pace of play will be something to watch especially with the 5s being reachable for many in the right conditions and the 3s potential trainwrecks.  Thankfully for us, there weren't many people on the course on the Sunday afternoon that we played, so waiting was never an issue though our round as a twosome, even, came close to 4 hours. 

[Brad Tufts]

We were at the resort on Thurs PM, all Friday, all Saturday, and Sunday AM, so I would imagine that was a pretty busy time.  Watching all the groups go up, around, and down the hill on the Cliffs back nine each evening we were there was entertaining...everyone wanted their full unhurried crack at 15-16-17-18 with the sun setting, etc.  I imagine this will ease a bit when tee times start on the Cliffs before 10AM...all 36/day groups had to do the Cliffs on the back end due to the course closed before 10AM rule.


Was interesting seeing the gaggle of people showing up midday Thursday to play all weekend, and interesting to see that most people had left late Saturday or really early Sunday to use the whole day to travel home...and a whole new crowd was showing up to play Sun/Mon/Tues, etc.


We did the grand tour on our trip...Flew Boston to HFX on Friday night, drove to PEI Sat. morning....Green Gables/Crowbush/Dundarave through Sunday, Fox Harb'r and drive to Ben Eoin Monday, The Lakes and Bell Bay on Tues, Highland x2 on Wed, then Cabot Thurs-Sun...drove back to HFX Sunday afternoon, then flew HFX-MTL-Boston, home by 10:30PMish.  Was a great trip!

[Ben Voelker]

Ben,

Thanks again for the course tour.  Just a couple of observations.

3. To me, that smooth transition from fairway to green on downhill holes like the 9th, 12th, 15th and 17th may be the quintessential Coore/Crenshaw feature.  Just a little bit wrinkled; not much.  I find the look very enticing.

John,


No worries.  I hope it inspires others to make the trip.  On the transitions, another is 5, on which the fairway ties really well into the green complex just as you describe.

[Ben Voelker]

We did the grand tour on our trip...Flew Boston to HFX on Friday night, drove to PEI Sat. morning....Green Gables/Crowbush/Dundarave through Sunday, Fox Harb'r and drive to Ben Eoin Monday, The Lakes and Bell Bay on Tues, Highland x2 on Wed, then Cabot Thurs-Sun...drove back to HFX Sunday afternoon, then flew HFX-MTL-Boston, home by 10:30PMish.  Was a great trip!

Brad,


How did you find The Lakes?  I added Bell Bay on my trek between Highlands Links and Inverness after hearing good things.  I did not think there was anything particularly inspiring there and wold probably recommend one to spend the extra day playing at Cabot or Highlands an extra round.

[Brad Tufts]

I thought the Lakes was pretty good.

It was the surprise of our trip, and Bell Bay was the disappointment.  I had no expectations for the Lakes and was pleasantly surprised, and had some expectations for Bell Bay and found little, especially on the front nine.

There were a couple clunkers at the Lakes, but the majority was pretty darn good.  We stayed in a great inn next door that has golf packages and has golf carts brought over in the morning for golfers.

I found a Robert Thompson review of the Lakes after it opened, and it was less than glowing, but compared to Bell Bay, it was MUCH more interesting.  The second tier of Cape Breton/PEI/Nova Scotia is not filled with amazing courses, really most are 4s and 5s, but I would but the Lakes near the top of tier two below the biggies.

[Bill Brightly]

Hi Bill,

I liked the blind feature, and the fact that the yardage meant nothing.  Walking forward isn't a bad thing, especially if you have a good chance for birdie.

It will be interesting, however, to see if 15 becomes a bottleneck.  During my third round I played right and hit a drive that went maybe 345y, and the guys behind us were hitting into us from the back tees figuring there was no way they could hit that far.  One thing for sure was that there were no quick rounds to be had at the Cliffs.  Beautiful scenery does that!!

There is no doubt that it is a cool hole. The tee shot offers a pretty interesting option. Aim left to a small target and flir with the bunkers or play safely to the right, which I did twice. If I played it again I'd try to hit to the fairway on the left just so I'd have a chance to see my ball run down the hill, maybe skirt the centerline bunker, maybe not. From the right side it is a crapshoot. And you miss being able to see what happens as the ball rolls down the hill.


Funny thing happened on my first play of Hole 15. I was 50 yards or so from the crest of the hill, totally blind. A guy in my group had bombed his drive and was up by the crest. I asked him where I should aim. He kept looking at my ball, then the centerline bunker, my ball, the bunker, and kept doing this and was afraid to give me a line for fear I'd end up in the bunker and be pissed! I bailed out way left into the fescue and made bogey. Second time I accidently missed the bunker on the right and rolled down the hill a ways, but had a really tough downhill pitch to a front pin. 

[Brad Tufts]

I was bit by #15 once, from the right blind fairway.  I hit a long-iron from about 250 and it ran down over the 16th tee into the hazard.  I have to admit it's a precise second shot, and the line is further right than instinct dictates.

After a drop, I chunked my flop into the greenside bunker, but recovered by one-hopping my 5th shot into the hole!

[Bill Brightly]

Brad,

I'm just curious: were you able to see your ball run into the hazard or did another member of the group tell you what happened?

I can easily envision that shot happening. I'm OK with my ball doing  that, I just would like to see it, and to have a chance to tell my ball to sit!

Seriously, I think a blind shot like this on a resort course is problematic.

However, the closing three holes are FANTASTIC! The most dramatic three-hole closing stretch I have ever played. Is there another course that can match this drama?

[John Kirk]

It seems like an ideal finish from afar.  I guess my concern would be how the 17th hole plays, and whether the sloping fairway to the green yields a pleasing variety of outcomes.  Has anybody driven and held the green yet?  On paper, it sounds perfect for me, with a 225-230 faded drive rolling down onto the green.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Has anybody driven and held the green yet?  On paper, it sounds perfect for me, with a 225-230 faded drive rolling down onto the green.

Your plan should work - I have driven the bunkers right beside the green, but not the green.  I don't think actually holding the green will be a problem but that depends on how fast the greens are - my understanding currently they are still quite slow - they were about 5 on the stimp when I was there in July.

[Brad Tufts]

Bill- I did not see my ball go into the hazard, as I was too far back even to run up and look.  I wished I could have seen it so I could look with precision, but it would have been unplayable anyhow.


I really don't mind it...I chose to go right to get 30-40 more yards of roll off the tee in exchange for the blind shot.  If you go left you have a chance to see the second shot, but you will give up a bunch of yardage, and risk going into the bunker at 300 over the hill left of the center bunker.  Or just carry it 290 and over everything (not in my bag)!  I thought it was fun to go up and watch each other's shots.  Coming over the hill to see the green below and the ocean behind is a great reveal too.


John...The "220-230 carry and end up on the green" really only will reach the very front right edge.  If that carry is made, the ball will be rolling pretty slow by the time it reaches the front edge.  The front right section also applies to those of us who have chipped or putted their 75-yard downhill shot, as the middle of the green is fronted by bunkers and the left side is not contoured favorably for a chip/putt from a distance.  My issue in trying to figure this all out is that none of the fairway/green is visible from the tee. 


Most short par fours have the go for it/lay it up challenge right in front of you to allow you to be the hero, screw yourself, or play smart.  These choices aren't clear from the 17th tee, so the hole is "different" from the start.  Not that the choices have to be clear, but we always say that after one play nothing is blind anymore, and that is not the case for me after three plays!  Those that consider it unfair have hit great drives through the turn in the hole into ugly places beyond (and this is why there was some thinning of veggies in process on the far side of the fairway I'm assuming), and probably seen buddies indifferently leave the face open a touch and still end up on the green.


I'm still on record as ultimately liking the hole...quirk and thought provocation is way more interesting than the lack thereof!

[Daryl David]

It seems like an ideal finish from afar.  I guess my concern would be how the 17th hole plays, and whether the sloping fairway to the green yields a pleasing variety of outcomes.  Has anybody driven and held the green yet?  On paper, it sounds perfect for me, with a 225-230 faded drive rolling down onto the green.

John,


Linda hit 5 wood from her tee and drove the green. She then drained the eagle putt. That had followed an easy birdie she made on 16. (Pin on left enabling run up shot). Needless to say, she thinks those holes are the best designed on the planet!


From the regular tees, a 6 iron is the safe shot to ensure you don't go through the fairway. Bolder option is a fairway metal with some fade to take advantage of the downhill slope. If you are lucky the ball will roll down to about 40 to 50 yards from the pin. From there if you are me, you dump the pitch in the pot bunker and make 5. Then you get trash talk from your wife. 

[Chris DeToro]

17 is a great hole.  Though there wasn't much thought for my single play of 17 with it playing severely into the wind.  I wonder if others had this hole playing into the wind as well or if that was an unusual wind.  But I had to hit a pretty solid driver which left me with the awkward 75 yard downhill shot which isn't my favorite, but laying up a little from the tee would have been much more dangerous and likely left me with an equally uncomfortable shot

[Brad Tufts]

Chris - that was my experience too, and I think that is one of the prevailing winds (that was the wind all three days of my visit).


Even as a scratch player, my focus was to trap a tee ball into the wind that would hold its line and stay on the planet.  My caddie went up and provided an aiming point for my first play, and I hit a good one and ended up right next to him about 215-220 off the tee into the 25mph wind.  The caddies from our group that stayed on the tee were recommending three wood, but I just couldn't see making the carry without a perfect strike, and my 3-wood usually is 240+ off a tee.

[Ben Voelker]

Has anybody driven and held the green yet?  On paper, it sounds perfect for me, with a 225-230 faded drive rolling down onto the green.

Your plan should work - I have driven the bunkers right beside the green, but not the green.  I don't think actually holding the green will be a problem but that depends on how fast the greens are - my understanding currently they are still quite slow - they were about 5 on the stimp when I was there in July.

The hard part about driving the green is having the gumption to hit the ball on the right line, especially when it plays into the wind as it did for my two plays.


Also, I played end of September and the greens were only marginally slower the Cabot Cliffs.  The staff were saying they were running 8.5, which I have no reason to disbelieve.  I hope they do not plan on playing them much faster, perhaps 10 tops.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I played end of September and the greens were only marginally slower the Cabot Cliffs.  The staff were saying they were running 8.5, which I have no reason to disbelieve.  I hope they do not plan on playing them much faster, perhaps 10 tops.

I am guessing that you mean they were only marginally slower than Cabot Links.  But those are also much slower than any greens that I normally play in the summer here in Toronto.

[Bill Brightly]

I played end of September and the greens were only marginally slower the Cabot Cliffs.  The staff were saying they were running 8.5, which I have no reason to disbelieve.  I hope they do not plan on playing them much faster, perhaps 10 tops.

I am guessing that you mean they were only marginally slower than Cabot Links.  But those are also much slower than any greens that I normally play in the summer here in Toronto.

Wayne,


It would seem to me that if they ever get the greens faster than 10 they will have real problems with balls blowing on the greens. Two of my three days at Cabot had 30 mph winds, harder than anything I've played in Ireland.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I agree that they can't get them too fast - I am just saying it is hard to get used to greens that are way slower than what you normally play.


I have been to Cabot every year, except one, since the first ten holes opened at the Links and I have played about 5-6 rounds each trip. I have yet to play in significant wind. I don't know if that indicates good luck or bad.

[Tim Gallant]

Ben - thank you for posting these pictures. The whole course looks mouth-watering. Does the 9th have traces of a reverse Redan or is the middle part of the green flatter than it looks. Love the ridge front left though and bunker short right.