[Mark Smolens]

A notable omission is Elgin CC. It is easily top 25 in Chicago- best terrain for golf in Chicago . Better than Conway, Glen Flora, and LaGrange just for starters.

If you count Elgin, you gotta count Itasca. They're basically the exact same piece of property...and IMO, Itasca is better, but I'm biased.

Come on Shiv, in the words of John McEnroe, "You can't be serious." Itasca in the same class as Elgin CC? "exact same piece of property?" That's like saying that Dubsdread and Gleneagles or Old Oak are in the same class because they're on the same type of property.

[J_ Crisham]

A notable omission is Elgin CC. It is easily top 25 in Chicago- best terrain for golf in Chicago . Better than Conway, Glen Flora, and LaGrange just for starters.

If you count Elgin, you gotta count Itasca. They're basically the exact same piece of property...and IMO, Itasca is better, but I'm biased.

Dave, I've never heard nor been to Itasca - hence my omission . If you endorse it I may head there next season. Another course with good movement that never gets mentioned here is Naperville CC. It's pretty solid.

[Jud_T]

Haven't been there since the Smyers work, but there is a surprising lack of love for Butterfield here...One would think the combo of Langford and more elevation change than most area courses would be a pretty attractive combo...


Also Knollwood gets a lot of love but there's better Alison at Briarwood, Bob'O'Link and yes, Onwentsia....

[Terry Lavin]

Haven't been there since the Smyers work, but there is a surprising lack of love for Butterfield here...One would think the combo of Langford and more elevation change than most area courses would be a pretty attractive combo...

Oh my. That's funny.

[Mike Treitler]

Naperville CC is SUPER underrated, great golf course.     


I don't understand the love for Onwentsia and Knollwood to be completely honest.   I was majorly underwhelmed by both courses. 

[David Whitmer]

I may not be the best for this, but I have a very difficult time trying to compare "tournament" courses like Medinah, Olympia Fields and Butler to the other courses in the top 10. 

I agree with this completely- Comparing Butler and Medinah to Old Elm and Glen View is a fool's errand.  I'd tailor my recommendations depending on the audience...

Okay, then allow me to re-phrase: why is OFCC ranked higher than Skokie? For those who agree, why is that your conclusion? Is it the routing, the green complexes, the bunkering? If I ever tee it up at OFCC, what am I going to see there that may lead me to the same conclusion? Certainly two courses, whether one is a "tournament" course and one is not, can have their merits differentiated, no? I have played Butler (tournament course) and Skokie (I guess not a tournament course?), and can compare them...I think Butler is slightly better due to approach shots and a better mix of par 4s (though the lack of disparity in the par 3 distances keeps it very close). Matthew gave me a taste...anything else?

Dave,


This is really down to personal preference.  I personally have a slight preference for Skokie, which has also held numerous tournaments, but they're both very good courses that are just below the very best in the area.  i.e. Doak 7ish...

o


Thanks Jud. When I have played what I think is a wonderful golf course and someone says that another course (which I have not played) is better, my first thought is "Wow...that course must be fantastic. I wonder what specifically makes it the better course?" I just like to get feedback from those with more knowledge than I have.

[Terry Lavin]

The new Bob O is gonna vault up on a lot of lists this year. Urbina has hit a grand slam methinks.

[Jason Way]

Any man who has the good taste to give a proper shout-out to Jans National should be listened to...closely.


Methinks David Zinkand is about to hit a home run on that hallowed ground in the not-too-distant future.

[Andrew Lewis]

Any man who has the good taste to give a proper shout-out to Jans National should be listened to...closely.

Jason -- I hope you noted that Dave listed the Reverse Jans, not the Jans National.  There is a difference -- a very important difference.

My list:4. Exmoor6. Glen View

Dave -- Is the Exmoor placing a bit of homer-ism, or do you objectively think it's that good?  I have yet to see it (continued mea culpa on our previous scheduling snafu) and remain curious.  Similarly, I have not seen Glen View and know little of the course other than its history, but I'm a bit surprised to see it listed that high.

[Jason Way]

Jason -- I hope you noted that Dave listed the Reverse Jans, not the Jans National.  There is a difference -- a very important difference.

Difference noted Andrew, and completely understood.  One could argue that the Reverse Jans is a happening so cosmic in scale that it really transcends any humble course ranking.  It's more than a course, really.  I was simply trying to make a connection between the mythical and the mere mortal.

[George Freeman]

My list:

1. Shoreacres
2. Old Elm
3. Reverse Jans
4. Exmoor
5. Skokie
6. Glen View
7. Chicago Golf
8. Flossmoor
9. Butterfield
10. New Bob 0'
11. OFCC North
12. Medinah 3
13.  Beverly
14.  Briarwood
15.  OFCC south
16.  Butler
17.  Shepards Crook
18.  Itasca
19.  North Shore
20.  Knollwood
21. Barrington Hills
22. Black Sheep
23. Glen Club
24. Onwentsia
25. Medinah 1

Dave -


Is that the old Medinah #1 at 25 or the new Medinah #1 at 25? Frankly I'm surprised to see it so low on average in these lists.


I played it this summer and really enjoyed it. It definitely shook up the top of my Chicagoland list.

[SL_Solow]

My take for what it is worth.  There are anywhere from 3 -7 courses that are separated from the rest.  Thereafter, there are, depending upon one's taste, 15 -30 that are all wonderful golf courses but where there are small differentials not worth arguing about.  The depth of good golf courses in my hometown is significant.  However the quality and number of those at the very top is smaller than some other areas, due in large measure, I suspect, to a combination of topography (or lack thereof) and soil.  Therefore, I try to analyze and enjoy each course for what it presents.  Spending time arguing the relative merits of most of them, given their relatively equal stature, is not worth the time.  Trying to understand why I like certain features and how the architect found/created/used them is far more interesting, at least for me.

[Terry Lavin]

My take for what it is worth.  There are anywhere from 3 -7 courses that are separated from the rest.  Thereafter, there are, depending upon one's taste, 15 -30 that are all wonderful golf courses but where there are small differentials not worth arguing about.  The depth of good golf courses in my hometown is significant.  However the quality and number of those at the very top is smaller than some other areas, due in large measure, I suspect, to a combination of topography (or lack thereof) and soil.  Therefore, I try to analyze and enjoy each course for what it presents.  Spending time arguing the relative merits of most of them, given their relatively equal stature, is not worth the time.  Trying to understand why I like certain features and how the architect found/created/used them is far more interesting, at least for me.

Good points all, but why do you refuse to play our silly game?  Give us your Class A list at the very least...

[Anthony Fowler]

Terry and Dave, when did you last play Onwentsia? As Jason pointed out, it sounds like some of the restoration work over the past few years has been transformative. Bill and I both played it this year and came away really impressed, so I'm wondering if that explains the discrepancy in our opinions.

[Terry Lavin]

Anthony,

If Onwentsia and Flossmoor are your one/two punch, c'est la vie. I didn't say anything derisive about either course.

[Andrew Lewis]

Jason -- I hope you noted that Dave listed the Reverse Jans, not the Jans National.  There is a difference -- a very important difference.

Difference noted Andrew, and completely understood.  One could argue that the Reverse Jans is a happening so cosmic in scale that it really transcends any humble course ranking.  It's more than a course, really.  I was simply trying to make a connection between the mythical and the mere mortal.

Perhaps we could convince Dave to lead an outing on the Hallowed Ground sometime this winter....

[Jason Way]

Jason -- I hope you noted that Dave listed the Reverse Jans, not the Jans National.  There is a difference -- a very important difference.

Difference noted Andrew, and completely understood.  One could argue that the Reverse Jans is a happening so cosmic in scale that it really transcends any humble course ranking.  It's more than a course, really.  I was simply trying to make a connection between the mythical and the mere mortal.

Perhaps we could convince Dave to lead an outing on the Hallowed Ground sometime this winter....

+1

[Terry Lavin]

If one is interested in playing golf near Evanston, I would recommend Evanston Golf Club, in nearby Skokie, which is about four or five Doak points higher than Jans, regardless of the direction of play.   

[Jason Way]

If one is interested in playing golf near Evanston, I would recommend Evanston Golf Club, in nearby Skokie, which is about four or five Doak points higher than Jans, regardless of the direction of play.   

Just wait Judge.  No offense to EGC, but if you (and Tom) can honestly say the same thing a few years from now, I will eat the Beverly GC page of the Confidential Guide.

[Andrew Buck]

Any man who has the good taste to give a proper shout-out to Jans National should be listened to...closely.

Jason -- I hope you noted that Dave listed the Reverse Jans, not the Jans National.  There is a difference -- a very important difference.

My list:4. Exmoor6. Glen View

Dave -- Is the Exmoor placing a bit of homer-ism, or do you objectively think it's that good?  I have yet to see it (continued mea culpa on our previous scheduling snafu) and remain curious.  Similarly, I have not seen Glen View and know little of the course other than its history, but I'm a bit surprised to see it listed that high.

There's two ways to look at the question "is your wife beautiful?"

One is to try to be objective and rank your wife's beauty relative to other wives.  The other is to recognize that you married her for a reason over all the other women you may have dated, so OF COURSE SHE'S FRICKING HOT!! 

So yes, as a golf course, prefer Exmoor to Skokie  and Glen View and North Shore and a few other that are closer to me.  I prefer it to the other courses I listed.  I know the things that take Exmoor down a bit in some people's eyes, and these are things that I actually prefer:  4 reachable par 5s, width, lack of trees, lack of forced carries, subtle (as opposed to heaving) ground movement.   So yeah, maybe if I think about it I could take it down to 5th or 6th but that's as far as I go.  I've played 'em all and I picked this one. There has to be a reason.

The last three posts have made my day ...

or maybe I'm just still naturally happy from last night.

[Terry Lavin]

No danger of that bet ever occurring because neither course would ever hit Doak's radar.

[Phil McDade]

No danger of that bet ever occurring because neither course would ever hit Doak's radar.

Who cares if the Reverse Jans gets on Doak's radar so he can rate it? Shouldn't the goal here be to get Doak to play the Reverse Jans? Heck, Traverse City isn't that far from Evanston/Wilmette.....he played a course in friggin' Nepal in the shadow of the Himalayas and raved about it; doesn't the Reverse Jans deserve the same consideration?

[Andrew Lewis]

A golfer hasn't lived until he's played the Reverse Alps with Tunnel Option Hole at the Reverse Jans. It might be the greatest hole in the world.  Scratch that. It actually IS !

Like the Old Course, the. Reverse Jans both make -- and breaks -- all the rules.


Sadly CB Mac never saw it. Otherwise we perhaps would be blessed with such templates as that and the Cop Car Hole...

[Mark Smolens]

Now that we have somebody on this board that's actually INVOLVED with the Jans, the 3rd Open Championship of the Honourable Company of a Reverse Jans Golfers might not even constitute loitering, trespassing, or theft of services this year !!

We MUST have it.  I will arrange it.  Remember: it has to be on a day crappy enough in the winter that nobody else would be crazy enough to play.  And it has to be when there's no (or at least minimal) snow on the ground.  Come to think of it, minimal is preferred because it scares off the golf-addicted masses and the snow can be used as a tee if the ground is too frozen to get a regular tee in. 

We really should make this a regular thing.  The hazards and strategy at the Reverse Jans are among the most unique and challenging in the world.  What other course has not just one but 6 Road holes and at least 3 Alps holes, not to mention the potential for the most diabolical of all hazards - the roving police cruiser!  ... for those who find hitting golf shots over stationary police cruisers too pedestrian. 

This will be done.  Stay tuned.

I will notify the Evanston Public Works Dept to lay in a supply of new street light casings -- after all, Mr. McDade could be making another appearance on the Reverse Jans and the local light poles are very afraid

[Phil McDade]

I will notify the Evanston Public Works Dept to lay in a supply of new street light casings -- after all, Mr. McDade could be making another appearance on the Reverse Jans and the local light poles are very afraid

I will of course need appropriate legal counsel to participate; anyone know any good lawyers around here?

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