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RJ_Daley

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Portmarnock!
« on: September 26, 2015, 12:54:13 PM »
What a great afternoon with Ally McIntosh and John (Jack/Johnny-Jack) Marr;)

Incredibly,  we have no course review on Portmarnock!  I nominate my wonderful host member to submit one.  Ally is a golf course architect himself.  After hearing his ideas and realising he is working on Irish links remodel, such as Carne, it is only fitting as he is a Portmarnock member, to give us an overview from the architects prospective. 

I only have phone pictures, which I must sort out and get posted to a host sight before I can include them here. 

But by all mean, anyone who knows Portmarnock... get the discussion rolling. 

I found the fairways wonderfully firm, cosidering they have been unseasoably wet as I understand.  The sand has them well drained.

The bunker arrays tee to greem are perfectly placed from member tees for my ability of 235 yards at upper limits.  The bounding run along firm ground can get a bunter like me far enough down the FW to try for preferred sides and angles, or have a bound into one of the perfectly maintained and edged sod wall bunkers.   Every green is nicely contoured and propotionally dimensioned with really compelling pin positions.   (If only a fellow could have a go at them all!  ;) )

I think I can safely say that the greens surrounds with fescue crisp and near green HOC offering the nearly obligatory putter from well off greens or a FW wood or hybrid bump, brings to my mind memories of Royal Melbourne or Kingston Heath, but with the crisp  edged sod wall bunkers rather than the MacKenzie fall-in style.  But the effect of the firm green challenge to have a smart aproach skill, using the deft touch along the ground seem very similar to me.

And, we had a fleeting celebrity/pro golfer sighting of Shane Lowrey who was finnishing 18 as we turned 9.  I didn't actually recognise him untill Ally mentioed it as they passed by us.   Unfortunately I would think that they can't stretch out the course for the big boys to make it much more than irons, hybrids, FW metals, followed by wedges and 9 irons into the greens.   I'd have loved to watch a kid like Lowrey attack the course to see what style shots he'd use in a fun rather than competitive round.

Please do add your impressions if you have experienced this wonderful Irish gem of a links course.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Cowden

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2015, 10:31:29 PM »
I played it earlier this month for  the first time.  Thoroughly enjoyable, and a real links pleasure.  The wind, the turf and the ground very much factors in one's play.  Skip the newer Bernard Langer Links and head straight to Portmarnock Golf Club.  Enjoy your toastie and Guiness from the second floor clubhouse bar, included with the green fee. and the caddie we drew was superb.  Saw several life rings near small depressions at the base of dunes in the rough, some with a bit of water, some not so; funny thing. 

RSantangelo

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2015, 10:40:32 PM »
I have nothing but fond memories of portmonarck....used to get to Dublin so probably played 4-5 times but last was there 5 years ago

Relatively tame elevation change and quite playable I thought...also.I remember really enjoying the par 3 where with a firm breeze you needed to aim out into the edge of the water...also, a quiet club that had not been commercialized like some in Ireland.....

Great course to anchor a Dublin based trip...last time I was there we based out of Dublin and played portmonarck, the European club and the island and with some ambition, can round trip to royal county down on a day trip...great golf, pretty sime logistics and Dublin nightlife...worked pretty well

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2015, 11:02:28 PM »
It has been a while since I played the course but on a windy day it, as with Portrush, might be one of the more difficult driving courses I have played.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Cowden

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2015, 11:03:01 PM »
Spot on.  County Louth--Baltray--offers a nice complement to Island.  And when in the RCD neighborhood, play Ardglass.  Golf holes hard by the sea, with a few natural and engaging quirks, need to be played several times.  But you won't mind a bit.  Beautiful setting.

Brian Finn

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2015, 11:47:22 PM »
I remember my day at Portmarnock (about 10 years ago) very fondly. First out on an unusually warm and sunny day. It was my first time on a true links course, and I could not have enjoyed it more.  After a somewhat gentle start, the course played quite difficultly, despite calm conditions. 
New for 2025: Cabarrus CC...

Thomas Dai

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2015, 02:35:30 PM »
On sand. Easy walking. History. 18-holes of championship calibre links golf plus a further 9-hole course all arranged in three loops of nine that return to the wonderful clubhouse area. Splendid practice facilities. Quiet and tranquil and serene (a few planes apart). Splendid views. What's there not to like about Portmarnock? Just about perfect to me.
Atb

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2015, 06:39:32 PM »
RJ,
I just returned today from Portmarnock!
Played there on Thursday and Friday with a group of 10 that included 5 members.
Saw Padraig Harrington as well as Shane Lowery. Padriag we teeing  off on short par 4 on Yellow course while we were teeing off on the par 5 (on blue?) that shares the tee box by the water.


Wonderful experience there.
We played European Club on Saturday as there may have been a competition going on atortmarnock but came back and played Yellow 9 late in the pm and it was spectacular.


Great course. Fair but demanding for sure. Perfect clubhouse.
Incredible setting.


Will comment more later.
Cheers,
Ian

RJ_Daley

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2015, 08:04:16 PM »
Thanks for the post, Ian.  Was there a very intense loyal Chicago Bears fan in that groip?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2015, 08:34:02 PM »
Thanks for the post, Ian.  Was there a very intense loyal Chicago Bears fan in that groip?


No, we had a diverse group:


1 Finn
1 German
1 Scot
2 Irish
5 American


Were seated upstairs by back left window for dinner and lunches.


Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2015, 05:24:04 AM »
Ian,
 
I think I may have seen your group in the bar on Friday...
 
Dick - great to meet you and share some time over golf and dinner with you.
 
I'm probably not the best person to contribute to this thread because I've been quite clear in the past on why I think the course is one of the greatest. That said, I probably should do a good photo tour one of these days. There's hardly anything out there, particularly good photos in the right sunlight....
 
Ally

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2015, 09:20:58 AM »
Ian,
 
I think I may have seen your group in the bar on Friday...
 
Dick - great to meet you and share some time over golf and dinner with you.
 
I'm probably not the best person to contribute to this thread because I've been quite clear in the past on why I think the course is one of the greatest. That said, I probably should do a good photo tour one of these days. There's hardly anything out there, particularly good photos in the right sunlight....
 
Ally


We were with Alan Swan and Peter Webster plus 3 other US members.


How about that weather...!!!...??

Thomas Dai

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2015, 11:13:23 AM »
Some Portmarnock photos -


Below - putting green and clubhouse



Below - 7th green - terrific hollow on left side



Below - 12th green - lovely par-3 playing in from the right



Below - par 4 14th - great hole



Below - rear of 4th green on the Yellow Nine - looks a cracker although didn't play it, just walked on by



Below - the famous par-3 15th



Below - 18th hole from the tee



There are some fabulous new photos here on the clubs website - http://www.portmarnockgolfclub.ie/


atb
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 11:15:37 AM by Thomas Dai »

RSantangelo

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 12:08:48 PM »
Thanks for posting

Brings back fond memories

Great stuff

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 12:33:15 PM »
A few months ago I ran an informal poll on my Facebook page: where is the purest links turf. Portmarnock got more votes than anywhere else, and, having been there in June, I can see why. It's as good a links experience as you will get.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

John Cowden

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 12:32:03 AM »
September 8 for 36 and saw non-a-ye.  Wrong club, must've been. 

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 03:15:14 AM »
What a great afternoon with Ally McIntosh and John (Jack/Johnny-Jack) Marr;)

I've had that pleasure too! Wonderful introduction to Ireland.

Portmarnock's greatness is in it's understatement, quite a contrast to the other great Irish courses.

Dick, looking forward to seeing where you pop up next.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Michael Essig

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 02:06:17 PM »
I played it twice over three days a few years ago; once alone with just my caddie and the second time with my wife.
First, her comment was that she loved it and could play it every day.  A 25-handicap, with an occasional worm-burner off the tee, the course was very forgiving for her off the tee.  I don't remember much if any forced carries for her, so as long as she hit it straight, it was very playable.  And those occasional worm-burners just ran along the firm turf so that even her worst was just fine. 
In contrast, it can get very difficult when you start backing up a bit.  First day I played very well; the second day I got it going a little sideways and the course showed its teeth. I missed a lot of fairways by just a few yards and it punished me.
Wonderful greens, and pot bunkers that are playable while extracting their 1/2-shot penalty if you go in one. 
Super easy walk; it doesn't get much easier than this place.
Conclusion, a really, really good course that has the flexibility that enables it to be both enjoyable or a challenge. Easy walk. Well conditioned.  You can't ask for much more. 

Mark Pearce

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2018, 04:49:24 PM »
I played Portmarnock for the second time last Tuesday.  In this driest of summers, the fairways and greens were emerald green.  One of the staff proudly told us that they empty two of the huge water containers by the practice ground on the course every day.  So in a summer where most links courses play fast, firm and fabulously, Portmarnock played like it would in a damp Spring.  Absolutely bloody bonkers.


It's a very good course.  I don't love it, though, and it doesn't contend for my top 10 UK and Ireland.  Probably doesn't make the top 20.  Lots of very solid golf holes but none I'd call great.  What am I missing?
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2018, 05:07:19 PM »
I played Portmarnock for the second time last Tuesday.  In this driest of summers, the fairways and greens were emerald green.  One of the staff proudly told us that they empty two of the huge water containers by the practice ground on the course every day.  So in a summer where most links courses play fast, firm and fabulously, Portmarnock played like it would in a damp Spring.  Absolutely bloody bonkers.


It's a very good course.  I don't love it, though, and it doesn't contend for my top 10 UK and Ireland.  Probably doesn't make the top 20.  Lots of very solid golf holes but none I'd call great.  What am I missing?


That first paragraph astounds me, Mark. I haven’t been there this summer but it usually plays firmer and faster than any links I know and water is used sparingly.


As for the second, I think there are quite a few great holes, just none that immediately jump out at you.... but then I am one who puts less stock in great holes and more in the overall course... prefer my albums to hit singles. As an album, Portmarnock is hard to beat.


Not keen on a few of the recent changes however.

ward peyronnin

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2018, 06:11:19 PM »
I simply did not find Portmarnock very interesting but then a really bad caddie experience maybe hurt that opinion
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Mark Pearce

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2018, 06:49:22 PM »
That first paragraph astounds me, Mark. I haven’t been there this summer but it usually plays firmer and faster than any links I know and water is used sparingly.

It really disappointed me.  Having played Northumberland recently, which has been like playing on a road, I was really, really looking forwards to playing a links that really ran.  And now, with a game at Elie booked tomorrow, it's raining all night....


I'd love to know which holes you think are great, Ally.  When I played it last year I played very badly and put my lack of excitement down to that.  This time round I played almost as well as I can and still didn't find anything to really excite me.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2018, 01:12:30 AM »



I'd love to know which holes you think are great, Ally.  When I played it last year I played very badly and put my lack of excitement down to that.  This time round I played almost as well as I can and still didn't find anything to really excite me.


I think this could kick in a much deeper discussion of what makes a “great” hole, especially on a links course. My feeling is so many of the holes we label great we do so primarily for aesthetics, because it looks cool, because the ground contours are funky or because it is iconic or perhaps has provided a template for MacRaynor.


To take just one of many examples, the 16th at North Berwick is by no means great: it just has a highly individual green that is great fun to putt on. On the contrary, Redan most certainly is great.


Portmarnock comes with a bunch of holes that really do require you to pick the correct side of the fairway, the best examples being 3, 10, 16 & 18. The first of these is quite a tight hole but not only does it require approach from the correct side, it also has two features that create deception: one bunker 40 yards short that marries with one tiny dune spur just a few yards shorter on the left. This last feature was the primary motivator for Tom Simpson to name it as one of the best par fours he had seen.


Personally I prefer the 10th with its sole green side bunker and huge green swale on the other side of a Dornoch shaped, raised green, two features that demand you approach from the left. For comparison, Dornoch has no such hole with as strong a strategy required.


Or maybe the 16th with its reverse cambered fairway on the drive, its cross bunkers and most importantly of all, its severe tilt on the green from front left to back right.


The 18th is a classic finisher requiring very much that the inside bunkers are hugged to approach the gorgeous green site.


The above holes aren’t even the iconic ones. The 14th and 15th are world famous, the former being great in every sense other than the traditional, strategic one, the 15th noted for both its beauty and its difficulty although the 12th and maybe even the 7th are better par threes.


The 13th and 17th both use deceptive ridges better than any other links hole I can think of, the 5th is a thrilling blind tee shot and has a fantastic mound nestled short right of the green, again with a really clever bunker placed 20 yards short.


To all this, I’d say Portmarnock has almost the perfect mix of green sites, some mere extensions of fairways where there is an interesting fold or two, some raised in that Dornoch style and some inserted in to the main dune ridge. For sure, they don’t have huge internal movement but there is more there than is generally given credit for.


Finally, whilst it is a big club, it screams golf in an understated, friendly but non-commercial manner.


Of course, I’m a homer, but worth remembering that I chose it as the club I wanted to join, not The Island or any other course in the area. I’dve said all the above before I could have been accused of bias.


As a post note, the club have recently - through a ubiquitous links architect - added a few fairway bunkers to the flip side of fairways where previously only one side (the necessary strategic side) was bunkered. This is disappointing. Furthermore, they have added low mounding between three of the flatter fairways on the course - utterly pointless and a sure fire way to start eroding the natural character of a fine links. Got to be much more careful building things on a more level lying links. Certainly building what amounts to containment mounding is not the way to go about things.

Sean_A

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2018, 03:23:50 AM »

It's a very good course.  I don't love it, though, and it doesn't contend for my top 10 UK and Ireland.  Probably doesn't make the top 20.  Lots of very solid golf holes but none I'd call great.  What am I missing?

What is it that switches our minds on to loving a course?  Its the damnest thing. I think for me, repeated plays can help, but not always.  I know that I look for great holes if I am going to call a course great, but that isn't nearly the same thing as loving a course.  I spose, for many courses, once we love em' they can become great regardless of what is in the ground.  In the end though, greatness is not a measure of quality which really moves me.

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 03:32:41 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Thomas Dai

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Re: Portmarnock!
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2018, 04:42:17 AM »
Top track and place to play imo. Would jump at the chance to play it again and again.
Two loops of 9 returning to the clubhouse and with a pretty cool looking 3rd-9 as well.
Essentially flat, perhaps this diminishes the (visual) impact, easy walking but imo with sufficient contour to provide lots of interesting/challenging/thought provoking holes, angles, greensites, different recovery shots etc. Alarmed to hear the comments about the amount of watering though, and also the recent 'modifications' by a specialist links architect.
atb
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 06:41:34 AM by Thomas Dai »