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Steve Lang

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 8)  Its Chicago,... don't you know someone that can make it happen?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
8)  Its Chicago,... don't you know someone that can make it happen?


Shhh. We don't talk about how things in Chicago happen. They just happen. :)
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2016, 10:50:09 AM »


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/golf/ct-tiger-woods-south-side-golf-project-spt-1218-20161216-story.html


“Tiger Woods has committed to be the lead designer. … And on Sunday, Mayor Rahm Emanuel will announce the formation of the Chicago Parks Golf Alliance (CPGA), a nonprofit charged with improving Chicago Park District courses and golf facilities, expanding youth golf programs and, most significantly, raising money to make the Jackson Park/South Shore project a reality. … Groundbreaking on the $30 million renovation is aimed for the spring, with hopes to complete the 18-hole championship course, plus either a short course or par-3 course, in 2020.”
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

BShannon

Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2016, 11:09:36 AM »
Wonderful news for Chicago. A definite bright spot after the disaster that was the failed Lucas/Star Wars museum.


Article goes on to mention the potential to host the 2021 BMW. Is this just wishful thinking considering that the course won't open until 2020?

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2016, 11:35:38 AM »
Ok...who has a copy of the routing that they would like to share... :)
H.P.S.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2016, 11:39:43 AM »
Another muni course? Shut it down! It's unfair!

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2016, 11:43:38 AM »
 My enthusiasm is tempered by the reality that is Chicago. Given the financial difficulties and otherwise is this the best use of $30 million? Is $30 million a reasonable price? Will this truly be a municipal course or will it be another  Ferry Point?

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2016, 11:51:13 AM »
I went down to South Shore last week and took pictures here are some shots of how and what the course could look like... http://www.friedegg.co/golf-courses/tiger-woods-designed-chicago-golf-course

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2016, 11:53:32 AM »
Another muni course? Shut it down! It's unfair!

Reminds me of CNN's repetitive headlines that involve SNL mocking Trump. We get it.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2016, 12:11:36 PM »
Another muni course? Shut it down! It's unfair!

Reminds me of CNN's repetitive headlines that involve SNL mocking Trump. We get it.


I haven't seen those headlines as I have avoided cable news. So I'm not sure I follow your point as to what "we get" here.


I do wonder whether this is a good use of public money given Chicago's financial and social issues.

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2016, 12:27:15 PM »
I have seen the preliminary routing, which if I recall correctly, was prepared by Beau Welling.  There is some really neat stuff going on there, and I am sure it will surface here at some point.


With regard to the other mechanics of getting it done, a few nuggets:


It will be interesting to see how they achieve balance with being a positive to the community, affordably serving the local market, extracting a premium from out-of-towners, and being a PGA Tour venue.  They have smart people from the PGA, WGA/Evans Scholars and First Tee involved, among others, and initial signs seem to be encouraging.


There is a major difference between what happened with the Lucas Museum and this project that makes it more likely to happen.  The Lucas project required repurposing of land, which is what got the community / friends of the park folks riled up.  Although I am not a fan of how they seemed to have handled the situation (obstructionism vs. negotiation), the concerns were understandable.  If they had studied George Lucas's dealings in the past, they might have learned that home boy responds poorly to chest thumping and legal challenges.


This project is fundamentally different.  There is CPD property being used for golf now, and that property is being renovated for continued use for golf in the future.  That makes the hurdles to clear lower, and is one of the reasons why more ambitious plans to fill in a portion of lake, or incorporate additional parcels of property, have been ditched.  Doing so would have brought more players into the mix and complicated approvals. 


The best-use-of-funds question is basically unanswerable conceptually because different groups and individuals have a near-infinite list of different opinions and priorities for what constitutes the greatest social good.  In this case, that question is largely irrelevant because as I understand it, this project is not being paid for out of the city's general fund.  The lead organizations (PGA, WGA, FToGC) and supportive individuals are partnering with the CPD under this new umbrella to raise money specifically for this project.  Would the city be better off by fixing infrastructure or investing more in schools or public services?  Perhaps so.  But the question doesn't matter in relation to the priorities of the donors and/or supporting organizations.  They want to put their money into this golf project, not those other things.


I could be wrong about the above, and our fair city has shown a certain genius for tainting or ruining good things.  From what I know being privvy to some of the inner workings of this project though, there is reason to be excited if you care about golf in Chicago.     
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2016, 12:42:35 PM »
My enthusiasm is tempered by the reality that is Chicago. Given the financial difficulties and otherwise is this the best use of $30 million?

exactly

the city's finances and in disastrous shape and the slaughter in the streets goes on....

if this does happen, why doesn't the USGA use some of its hundreds of millions of dollars and make the place truly and very cheaply accessible to young kids?   they could have done that at Evergreen Golf course, which was instead turned into a Walmart...of course they won't do this..
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 01:09:16 PM by PThomas »
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2016, 12:42:58 PM »
Looking at a map of the site on google, I wondered: would a routing use the area that currently has baseball fields?

Paul Stockert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2016, 12:53:54 PM »

Interesting insight, thanks!  I live here.  And I'm excited!  Big Cat Barack Chi-town collaboration?  I think it sounds awesome. 


But what I think would be really cool would be seeing the talented hobbyists of this site draw up proposed routing ideas.  I wish I was talented enough to do that, because I love those contests and the propose site for the course is quirky, but neat.  Who gets those contests going, lets see one! [size=78%]https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jackson+Park/@41.7427437,-87.5708616,4000a,20y,40.81t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e290a132258b1:0xf1889df3682e3083!8m2!3d41.780953!4d-87.581613[/size]


As far as a tourney, for as much wrath as the USGA, PGA (and less so LPGA) catch over course setups and rulings, it's hard to fault them for being ready to take the game to major markets to sites that are ready to support them.  If the course, attendees, and sponsors are there and ready, I have no doubt they'll want a tournament with Chi-town skyline views in the background. 

[/size]That's also probably the least of all priorities right now outside of it helps create buzz.  If the golf is great and the youth programs and community involvement are there, I think this city can support another great course without a tourney. [size=78%]


- PJ



I have seen the preliminary routing, which if I recall correctly, was prepared by Beau Welling.  There is some really neat stuff going on there, and I am sure it will surface here at some point.


With regard to the other mechanics of getting it done, a few nuggets:


It will be interesting to see how they achieve balance with being a positive to the community, affordably serving the local market, extracting a premium from out-of-towners, and being a PGA Tour venue.  They have smart people from the PGA, WGA/Evans Scholars and First Tee involved, among others, and initial signs seem to be encouraging.


There is a major difference between what happened with the Lucas Museum and this project that makes it more likely to happen.  The Lucas project required repurposing of land, which is what got the community / friends of the park folks riled up.  Although I am not a fan of how they seemed to have handled the situation (obstructionism vs. negotiation), the concerns were understandable.  If they had studied George Lucas's dealings in the past, they might have learned that home boy responds poorly to chest thumping and legal challenges.


This project is fundamentally different.  There is CPD property being used for golf now, and that property is being renovated for continued use for golf in the future.  That makes the hurdles to clear lower, and is one of the reasons why more ambitious plans to fill in a portion of lake, or incorporate additional parcels of property, have been ditched.  Doing so would have brought more players into the mix and complicated approvals. 


The best-use-of-funds question is basically unanswerable conceptually because different groups and individuals have a near-infinite list of different opinions and priorities for what constitutes the greatest social good.  In this case, that question is largely irrelevant because as I understand it, this project is not being paid for out of the city's general fund.  The lead organizations (PGA, WGA, FToGC) and supportive individuals are partnering with the CPD under this new umbrella to raise money specifically for this project.  Would the city be better off by fixing infrastructure or investing more in schools or public services?  Perhaps so.  But the question doesn't matter in relation to the priorities of the donors and/or supporting organizations.  They want to put their money into this golf project, not those other things.


I could be wrong about the above, and our fair city has shown a certain genius for tainting or ruining good things.  From what I know being privvy to some of the inner workings of this project though, there is reason to be excited if you care about golf in Chicago.   
~ PJ

“Golf... is the infallible test. The man who can go into a patch of rough alone, with the knowledge that only God is watching him, and play his ball where it lies, is the man who will serve you faithfully and well.”
― P.G. Wodehouse

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2016, 01:23:33 PM »
Can't figure out how to post pictures here, if someone can send me an email, or pull them from my ariticle I posted. I have a aerial of where the properties would be linked and some photos of some possible holes on the lake. My email is andy@friedegg.co

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2016, 08:05:07 PM »
1.  My dream is dead.


2.  The course will bring in revenue, as long as the greens fee is set at an appropriate level.  If they get private money and bond off 1/3 of the cost the cost will not be crushing.  Hopefully this works. 


3.  The only hole at South Shore that was cool was the skyline par 3 on the south end of the property.  I hope they keep the South Shore clubhouse.


4.  I could imagine a Harbortown type course, an inland parkland course (site is flat) then cross LSD for a lakeside final two or three holes. 


5.  I want to play a championship length course like I want a case of trenchfoot.  Hopefully the back tees will never be open save for The Western. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2016, 10:00:55 AM »
1.  My dream is dead.

John -

If your dream was the Northerly Island idea, I think you were in fact dreaming.  If you thought the Lucas Museum fight was contentious, can you imagine trying to fill in the lake in this day and age?  We'll have a colony on Mars before that would ever happen.

This is phenomenal news for Chicago and specifically the South Side.  Anything that gives people a reason to head south is a good thing for the area.  This project, combined with the Obama Library, finally gives something for South Side residents to be excited about.  That is something that hasn't happened since the Olympics bid.

Hopefully the heavy hitters involved can put their money where their mouths are and deliver...

PS - I would have to imagine the South Shore Cultural Building is land-marked, so that should be staying.  Hopefully it's a centerpiece of the project - it is a beautiful building. 

Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2016, 10:29:42 AM »
George the South Shore Cultural center is in fact landmarked, so can't touch it. I would love to see them get more use out of it. They have a massive kitchen on the 5th floor, was updated less than 10 years ago. Could have a restaurant and bar with a great patio looking out onto the course and lake.

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
I just don't get it sometimes. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 10:31:13 PM by Frank M »

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2016, 06:59:29 PM »
Non-resident greens fees could exceed $200. Enough said.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2016, 07:27:50 PM »
I would ask the Jemseks if they would be willing to build and operate a course on the site.  If they felt there was a demand for such then it might make sense.  Otherwise it's a PR joke. 
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2016, 09:55:50 PM »
I would ask the Jemseks if they would be willing to build and operate a course on the site.  If they felt there was a demand for such then it might make sense.  Otherwise it's a PR joke.


With all due respect to the Jemsek's, they destroyed Dubsdread in order to chase a US Open. I wouldn't consider them the perfect source?


Of course there is a demand. A course on the lake that close to the City would be very popular, even at $100-$200/round.
H.P.S.

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2016, 10:04:20 PM »
Agree, the fact that Harborside is jammed every weekend at $100+ this course is going to do just fine charging $200 for non-residents and if resident rates are about $60, it will be packed.


The name of Tiger Woods combined with the allure of lakefront holes and skyline views is going to sell quite well. It also is a spectacular trip for out of towners, stay downtown with your significant other and play golf one day without leaving the city, $25 uber ride away while she goes to the spa. Rest of the weekend you are in the city, shopping, food etc.


SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2016, 10:08:07 PM »
Why don't we let this one play out.  There are some pretty good people involved trying to create a balance here.  Certainly the neighborhood could use an economic "driver".  It may not work out, but an attempt to get some youth and community involvement along with "high end" play would be welcome.  The current course is under utilized and somewhat neglected.  Msny of us will watch it closely if it gets beyond the talking stages.

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