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Tim_Cronin

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Not sure what the air quality to golf argument holds up when Harborside International, on mostly landfill adjacent to Lake Calumet, is in the 9th decile – all red.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Kalen Braley

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Safe to say, I wouldn't be looking to Frontiers for reliable information. 

They've had numerous incidents of editors overstepping boundaries and retraction of articles around topics like HIV denialism, Autism and Vaccines, Ivermectin usage, and not surprisingly climate change.

MCirba

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Frontiers??

What's next...Breitbart?   Daily Caller?   The Epoch Times?   


Egads.   'Nuff said.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tim_Cronin

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Not sure the air quality to golf argument holds up when Harborside International, on mostly landfill adjacent to Lake Calumet, is in the 9th decile – all red.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jeff Schley

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Not surprisingly things such as the OPC and large projects take much longer due to politics and bureaucracy. I still strongly believe the south side needs a big landmark project to build around such as this. The OPC will open in 2025 and not much of anything around the golf course project for almost 2 years.

We are already 4-5 years into this debate already.  At least throw several million at Jackson Park and South Shore to bring them up to an acceptable standard in the interim. Heck the Braves used Turner field for less than 20 years, let's do some capital improvements to the Chicago publics in the interim. I hope the National Links Trust can be a model to implement something similar for the Chicago public courses.
What happened to Rolfing and the movement, pretty radio silence.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Steve Lang

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 8)  I'm just waiting for the OPC's cost to reach 10 figures and the JP/SS project to really get into 9 figures... these costs are just crazy, inflation or not, please pass the popcorn!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

SL_Solow

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I have stayed away for awhile largely because I want to avoid discussing matters that are not public.  However, let me address a few items that have been raised and that are a matter of public record.  Corey, no one is suggesting that Chicago is a paragon of social or economic justice.  There is a lot of work to do.  That said, each project needs to be evaluated on its own.  This project involves a golf course that had over 40,000 rounds last year.  The community has expressed support and the land plan is sensitive to environmental concerns, notwithstanding the tree removal.  As far as the cost, the larger numbers that are being thrown around are largely a result of various parties attempting to add amenities that are unconnected to golf.  The plan is to pay for all of the golf project from privately donated funds.  The new golf course will be a gift to the Park District and the citizens of Chicago.  Any public funds relating to infrastructure were already provided for in connection with the Obama center. That is why the thought of a smaller project has not caught on.  The residents who use the course, when given the option of this project or a smaller make-over, prefer this course.  I know this to be a fact because I have attended meetings of the Jackson Park Golf Association, the umbrella group for those who play there and several other community groups. I do not know whether the project will succeed.  This is Chicago and there are a lot of politics involved.  But with those politics come a lot of disinformation.  I suggest that we give this a rest and see what develops.

MCirba

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Shel,

Well said.   I might add that a few of us in Philadelphia quickly learned in our endeavor that no one was going contribute private monies into a public asset to do this half-assed.   Good luck to everyone.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Paul OConnor

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #308 on: October 17, 2023, 08:36:08 AM »
A recent update from Jackson Pack Watch.
"
Chance for a Fresh Start on Much-Needed Golf Courses Restoration [/u][/b][/font]
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In our prior Update we had lamented that Crain’s reporter had not followed up on an unsolicited statement by Valerie Jarrett that the Obama Foundation would no longer be an advocate for the proposed Tiger Woods golf course in Jackson and South Shore Parks.  Thankfully, the Tribune did pursue the matter, diligently seeking clarifications from the Park District, the Obama Foundation, Tiger Woods’ planning firm--TGR Design, and the Chicago Parks Golf Alliance.  The trail of noncommittal statements and declinations to comment led to the conclusion that the plans for the TGR project have indeed stalled, and public attention is correctly turning to the more realistic and desirable possibility of restoring the two existing courses.[/font]
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We join many others – local golfers and other park users alike – in urging the Park District to delay no longer in developing with full community input a revised plan to update and maintain the separate Jackson Park and South Shore Park golf courses. We would hope Alderman Yancy will be instrumental in guaranteeing community input in the planning process. [/font]
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As the president of the national Olmsted Network noted in a letter to the Tribune headed “Abandon golf course plans,” there is an opportunity to honor and advance Frederick Law Olmsted’s vision of ecologically sustainable and class equitable access to active recreation as a key feature of public parks."[/font]
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And the Tribune article for those too lazy to click the link:[/font]
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Breaking NewsPlans for Tiger Woods golf project near Obama Presidential Center have stalled, but hopes remain for restoration of existing courses  By Robert McCoppinChicago Tribune•Published: Sep 29, 2023 at 5:00 amJackson Park Golf Course on Sept. 22, 2023. Plans to redesign it as a PGA-caliber course have stalled.Jackson Park Golf Course on Sept. 22, 2023. Plans to redesign it as a PGA-caliber course have stalled. (Trent Sprague/Chicago Tribune)While the Obama Presidential Center is rising in Chicago’s Jackson Park, a closely related project favored by the former president continues to languish.
Backers still hope to resurrect the grand plan for a new professional tournament-quality course next door, but with little progress, residents remain anxiously waiting for restoration of two existing courses.In 2016, then-Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel announced plans for a new PGA-caliber golf course next to the planned presidential library. The proposal was backed by the clout of the former president and golf superstar Tiger Woods, whom Obama asked to design the course.
Nearly seven years later, the plan to combine and rebuild Jackson Park and South Shore golf courses appears to have ground to a halt, with little governmental involvement and almost no money.The grand vision reached this impasse through a lack of political support, a dearth of fundraising and the effects of a  pandemic. Regardless of whether the plan materializes, supporters maintain the need has never been greater to restore the historical courses to a point where they can support not only golfers, but jobs and youth participation.
“There’s no money to do that,” Louise McCurry, part of the recently formed Jackson Park Conservancy, said of the new golf course. “We have this wonderful resource, but we need to upgrade it and make it a place everyone can enjoy.”Questions arose about the future of the project recently after Valerie Jarrett, CEO of the Obama Foundation, told Crain’s Chicago Business that the foundation was not pursuing the project, and she had only heard “rumors” that the golf course project was still alive.
The foundation issued a statement that it has always been “supportive” of investments in the community and Jackson Park, but that the foundation is “singularly focused” on completing the presidential center, to open in 2025.Tiger Woods’ planning firm, TGR Design, had produced and refined a plan to combine the 27 existing holes into one much longer 18-hole course. When contacted by the Tribune, TGR referred questions about the project to the Chicago Park District, which included the proposal in its South Lakefront Framework Plan.
Parks spokeswoman Michele Lemons declined a request for an interview about it, but wrote in an email to the Tribune, “There have been no recent discussions so the Park District has no updated information to share.”
The Chicago Parks Golf Alliance, a tax-exempt not-for-profit led by local attorney Brian Hogan and NBC Sports commentator Mark Rolfing, and backed by course developer Mike Keiser, which spearheaded the project, declined to comment. Its website is down, and its last Facebook update was from more than three years ago.
The group was tasked with raising private donations for the originally estimated $30 million cost of the upgrade. Its most recent publicly available IRS filing showed annual fundraising had dried up to less than $50,000 in gross receipts. The group previously had raised more than $1.2 million, but after expenditures including professional and management fees, by 2021, only about $350,000 remained.The site, with views of the downtown skyline and on the shores of Lake Michigan, was envisioned as a sort of Pebble Beach of the Midwest, in reference to the famous seaside course in California.
But after Lori Lightfoot replaced Emanuel as mayor in 2019, advocates said, progress ground to a halt. Lightfoot said she had concerns about “red flags,” telling the Sun-Times, “It’s not a well-thought-out plan.”
The project also was left dangling while the Obama center was delayed for years by litigation, and is still seeking donations while its $800 million library is under construction. The city administration also was busy dealing with fallout following the pandemic and George Floyd protests, with closed schools and rising crime.
The Jackson Park Golf Association expressed its support for the Woods planin 2017,saying restoration is badly needed, and hoping a pro tournament would provide an economic boost to the area, as the BMW Championship has in the suburbs.
While skeptics have questioned how average duffers would afford a top-flight golf course, supporters expressed confidence in the Park District’s pledge to keep greens fees below $50 for residents, while nonresidents might pay as much as $300.
Other residents raised objections, saying it was unrealistic to combine a challenging PGA-level course with an affordable public course for casual and beginner golfers. There was also concern about the expected loss of hundreds of mature trees and habitat in the South Shore Nature Sanctuary, prompting designers to say they would expand natural areas and plant new trees.Opponents say the true costs would be far higher, including an estimated $30 million for two proposed underpasses. The Park District’s plans also call for a $28 million restoration of the nearby shoreline.
Originally, groundbreaking on the golf course was hoped for in 2017, with opening in 2020, but that never happened.Bill Daniels, founder of Golf Chicago magazine and an opponent of the project, sits in a bunker on a fairway at Jackson Park Golf Course on Sept. 22, 2023.Bill Daniels, founder of Golf Chicago magazine and an opponent of the project, sits in a bunker on a fairway at Jackson Park Golf Course on Sept. 22, 2023. (Trent Sprague/Chicago Tribune)Golf consultant Bill Daniels, who founded Golf Chicago magazine, calls the PGA-level makeover a “bad idea,” saying a course restoration would make more sense as a training facility.Afternoon Briefing “It seems like it’s dead in the water, but we’re worried this is the beast that won’t die,” Daniels said. “There’s always that possibility until someone drives a stake through its heart.”Brenda Nelms, co-president of Jackson Park Watch, said a course restoration should be aimed at community golfers. She called the Tiger Woods plan an unfeasible “pipe dream” that the Park District should give up.
“My fear is they’ll dither and nothing will have been done to improve things,” she said. “So I hope there can be a plan B.”As the long delay continues, the Jackson Park Golf Association supports restoration of the course, but members aren’t waiting for a resolution. Leagues and clubs continue to play there, holding special events, introducing underrepresented kids to the game, and offering caddying jobs and scholarships.
Tracy Raoul, the golf association’s chairperson, said investment is crucial to revitalizing the community.
“There’s so much negativity, it’s sad no one comes to see the progress and positive activities we’re doing at the park,” she said. “We will continue to do what we can to keep the course playable, accessible and hopefully affordable. Whatever happens one way or the other, we’re going to play golf.”
rmccoppin@chicagotribune.com

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #309 on: October 17, 2023, 03:40:21 PM »
Paul, thanks for posting.


The short version: The Woods-Welling plan is as dead as a beaver hat.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jim O’Kane

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #310 on: October 18, 2023, 10:36:59 AM »
Paul, thanks for posting.


The short version: The Woods-Welling plan is as dead as a beaver hat.
Ibid, Paul. Thanks for that.

Seems a shame to me. I saw somewhere (maybe here?) a detailed routing of the plan for the new championship routing and it looked pretty spectacular.

I hope they pour some money into both of those places and resurrect them a bit. I think it's historically important to keep them...kind of in the same manner as Canal Shores. These tracks won't bowl you over, but they have a lot of history and are little Chicagoland gems in my mind.

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #311 on: October 18, 2023, 05:02:07 PM »
Paul, thanks for posting.


The short version: The Woods-Welling plan is as dead as a beaver hat.
Ibid, Paul. Thanks for that.

Seems a shame to me. I saw somewhere (maybe here?) a detailed routing of the plan for the new championship routing and it looked pretty spectacular.

I hope they pour some money into both of those places and resurrect them a bit. I think it's historically important to keep them...kind of in the same manner as Canal Shores. These tracks won't bowl you over, but they have a lot of history and are little Chicagoland gems in my mind.


Jim, that's what I'd like to see as well. Keep their historic nature – JP and SS are at the site of the first public course in the midwest and the only lakeside private club in Chicago, respectively – and their basic routings (among the last surviving Bendelows), but spruce them up with better agronomy, etc. The Chicago Park District recently did the same to Robert A. Black, which dates to the 1980s, so JP and SS are well past due for the same.


I don't know how to post diagrams or photos here, but here's a link to the April 2018 issue of Illinois Golfer with the Woods-Welling routing of the JP redo on the cover and inside:


https://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/1214782/27872472/1522679276107/IG+2018+4+FINAL.pdf?token=zirlT76hQyTt4gwhDuuFnZcHD2g%3D
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

MCirba

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #312 on: October 18, 2023, 10:55:50 PM »
Shel,

Well said.   I might add that a few of us in Philadelphia quickly learned in our endeavor that no one was going contribute private monies into a public asset to do this half-assed.   Good luck to everyone.


Having been through this it's a pipe dream to think anyone, public or private, is going to pump in capital to improve the existing courses.    Ask yourself why anyone would.  Would you?






« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 09:22:45 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: Plan Would Bring Championship Public Golf Course to Chicago's South Side
« Reply #313 on: October 24, 2023, 02:12:20 PM »
I feel compelled to add that the idea that someone is going to just pump capital into the existing municipal courses without some type of larger vision is purely knowing deception from opponents of the more grandiose plan, IMHO.   Let's be honest about intentions and biases and don't knowingly keep those who support the existing courses holding onto false hopes of serious course improvements that will never be realized in a million years.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 02:22:34 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

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