Speaking of "restorations" ..

[JStewart]

Gil Hanse will be making some recommendations over the next year to Oakland Hills CC about tweaking/restoring/un-Rees'ing the South Cse.


It will be interesting to see what he suggests. I know the consensus at the club is to roll back a lot of the work done between the '04 Ryder Cup and '08 PGA by none other than Mr. Jones.

[Mike_Young]

Joel,
I like much of the work of GH and I like much of the work of Rees J.   
Would you say it is a fair assumption to say a club can often maintain the same shot values and playability while really doing nothing more than changing the aesthetics to the flavor of the day? 

The main thing I see is that GH is the new "way to go" for these types of clubs and congrats to him for achieving such.  You know, sort of like when Fairway and Green took over from Polo in the pro shop.  It's the way the world turns.

[BCowan]

Joel,
I like much of the work of GH and I like much of the work of Rees J.   
Would you say it is a fair assumption to say a club can often maintain the same shot values and playability while really doing nothing more than changing the aesthetics to the flavor of the day? 

The main thing I see is that GH is the new "way to go" for these types of clubs and congrats to him for achieving such.  You know, sort of like when Fairway and Green took over from Polo in the pro shop.  It's the way the world turns.

   That was some good stuff.  Ur off a decade, I'm a Millar guy  .  GH seems to like water hazards, I'm curious to see the plans.  ''and the current fashion sets the pace''

[Anthony Gholz]

1948 may be a little too early, but I've heard Ross had a new bunkering plan and its in the club files.  Might be worth a look.

[Anthony Gholz]

or how about the old man's style right out of the box?  Leave all the new tees and get back to 1952 with the sand.

[BHoover]

very interested to see how this ultimately turns out when the restoration is implemented. I know it's not everyone's favorite, but I loved Oakland Hills, particularly the back nine, and a restoration to more of what Ross intended will likely make it even better than it already is.

[DFarron]

Best news I've heard in a while ......

[Jeff_Brauer]

1948 may be a little too early, but I've heard Ross had a new bunkering plan and its in the club files.  Might be worth a look.

That is true and I saw it years ago.  A print with red pencil marks where the new bunkering was going to go.  From memory, stylistically different than what RTJ eventually did, but surprisingly, most of the proposed bunker locations were similarly moved out to 250 yards, increased in number, etc.

[Jeff Bergeron]

Word on the street is it will be far more than tweaking.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Of course, it has to happen. After decades of worrying about renovating or restoring the pre WWII classics (courses and architects) now the question is renovate or restore the courses of the 1950's. 

While most here would say tear them up,  they aren't in fashion any more, that would be the same thought process applied in 50's-90's that caused so many other courses to be changed drastically....with varying opinions as to whether it is good or bad.  Or, that  Ross and others applied to many of the early courses they totally redid into new courses.

Will anyone stand up for the legacy of RTJ and Dick Wilson from the 50's?  What about the Floyd Farley's of the world?

[Matt Bielawa]

   That was some good stuff.  Ur off a decade, I'm a Millar guy  .  GH seems to like water hazards, I'm curious to see the plans.  ''and the current fashion sets the pace''

Why do you say GH seems to like water hazards?  Looking at his original designs, I don't really see any basis to that generalization. 

http://www.hansegolfdesign.com/Hanse_Golf_Design/Completed.html

You can't blame the guy for what was already there at Doral, or on the property in Rio.

[JStewart]

Word on the street is it will be far more than tweaking.

Of course the membership will need to approve any changes and I doubt they sign off on anything significant. But I guess this all depends on how we define significant.

[corey miller]

Having worked with Gil on a renovation my best advice to the membership at Oakland Hills is to set a mandate such that they won't be in a position to "sign off" on any individual elements of the proposed plan. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Of course, it has to happen. After decades of worrying about renovating or restoring the pre WWII classics (courses and architects) now the question is renovate or restore the courses of the 1950's. 

While most here would say tear them up,  they aren't in fashion any more, that would be the same thought process applied in 50's-90's that caused so many other courses to be changed drastically....with varying opinions as to whether it is good or bad.  Or, that  Ross and others applied to many of the early courses they totally redid into new courses.

Will anyone stand up for the legacy of RTJ and Dick Wilson from the 50's?  What about the Floyd Farley's of the world?

True, but I would think that the majority of the courses that Ross et al. changed were of the earlier, rudimentary variety... conversely, wasn't/isn't the resto/reno of pre WW11 courses due mainly to some of the more sorry influences of 50s + architecture?

Beyond that, if you have a really good example of RTJ's or DW's or FF's work, then respect it for what it is.

[BCowan]

   That was some good stuff.  Ur off a decade, I'm a Millar guy  .  GH seems to like water hazards, I'm curious to see the plans.  ''and the current fashion sets the pace''

Why do you say GH seems to like water hazards?  Looking at his original designs, I don't really see any basis to that generalization. 

http://www.hansegolfdesign.com/Hanse_Golf_Design/Completed.html

You can't blame the guy for what was already there at Doral, or on the property in Rio.

He increased the amount of hazards in play and water hazards in general at doral.  More water.  I've seen the plans at lookout mtn too.  He likes to put greens by ponds, which I detest.  I could care less about Rio. 

[Jeff Bergeron]

Having worked with Gil on a renovation my best advice to the membership at Oakland Hills is to set a mandate such that they won't be in a position to "sign off" on any individual elements of the proposed plan.

I would be shocked if OHCC would agree to that. Buts it's not a bad idea.

[mike_beene]

It is an essential idea. If my club can find five members who know more about golf courses than Bill Coore and happen to be on the committee, then Oakland Hills can luck into a few to pick apart GH.