[JJShanley]

I may have a business trip to Duke University this October, during which time I should have a day [/size]off (a Thursday) for golf.  Would you recommend playing at Duke's course or heading somewhere further afield like Loonie Poole at NC State?  I may have a rental car


Right after that trip (if it goes ahead) I'll travel to Omaha, Neb. for a wedding.  Can you recommend anywhere for an early-Saturday morning round before the wedding and/or a Sunday early-afternoon round either side of the Missouri River.  I'd probably rely on taxis for this leg of the trip.


Thanks!


JJS

EDIT to say I've time for two rounds wherever I play in NC.

[hhuffines]

I wouldn't leave Duke for The Lonnie Poole course unless Duke was over crowded and Lonnie Poole was empty.  UNC has its course but I would prefer Duke.  Hope Valley in Durham is a fine old Ross course that might let you play.

[Philip Hensley]

Ditto that, especially that time of year. If it were winter I could recommend Lonnie Poole or Finley (UNC) over Duke, as Duke's tight tree cover tends to keep the course from drying out when the grass is dormant.

[Jason Thurman]

If you have time for two rounds in NC, you should just drive down to Pinehurst and choose from any of the dozen excellent options available.

[JJShanley]

Thank you!  I'd heard good things about LP, but I'll go with Duke.

[Philip Hensley]

Good call

Duke is fine, and could be a lot better.

Lonnie Poole front 9 is a routing nightmare. And something i forgot to mention earlier, good luck playing in less than 5 hours at LP, no matter what day of the week.

[Michael Miller]

I would highly recommend Duke's course. I played it regularly when I lived in Durham and also enjoyed Lonnie Poole and Finley. Duke put in new greens several years ago, which was one of the criticisms of the course. I haven't played the new surfaces but hear they are an upgrade to the soft aging greens they had. The course should be dried out but not yet dormant when you are there. October was my favorite time to play. And yes, Lonnie Poole can be a long round. Duke plays much faster with short distances between greens/tees.

[Chris Wickham]

For Omaha, a decent public option is Indian Creek in Elkhorn, which is a suburb out west.  If you don't mind traveling further west, Quarry Oaks just off the Platte River near Ashland between Omaha and Lincoln is a decent public option as well.

[Adam_Messix]

I know that you're asking for public options, but I bet you can arrange a game at Alamance Country Club fairly easily.  If memory serves it's a Donald Ross design from 1948.  It's a grander, more broad shoulder course than you typically see from Ross and a fun one to play.  Would recommend Hope Valley too, a Ross from a earlier era and stylistically different than Alamance. 

[Jerry Kluger]

I recently played Finley and I found it far more interesting and enjoyable than Duke.  I played Quarry Oaks in the Omaha area and it had some really cool holes along the river - I also played it on a Sunday morning around 9:00 and the parking lot was empty. 

[JJShanley]

Good to know about Quarry Oaks.  If I can get a ZipCar then I'll get out there on the Sunday morning after the wedding.


I'm not a member anywhere (I typically play Notre Dame's Warren course on a daily fee basis) so I wouldn't have access to the CCs mentioned.  If folk think I'll enjoy 36 holes at Duke then I'll play there without hesitation.


Any options across the river in Iowa that I should consider if I have the chance?

[JJShanley]

I played 36 at Duke last Thursday before my conference.  I'd a decent enough day, but it struck me that the course comes under the "hit in long, then hit it high" heading.  I don't regret playing it twice, but wouldn't rush back.

EDIT to say I birdied 10 on both rounds.  I don't think I've ever done that before.

Chose brunch with friends at Omaha's Wheatfields over 18 at Quarry Oaks.  I regret nothing.

Thank you for suggestions!

[A.G._Crockett]

I played 36 at Duke last Thursday before my conference.  I'd a decent enough day, but it struck me that the course comes under the "hit in long, then hit it high" heading.  I don't regret playing it twice, but wouldn't rush back.

EDIT to say I birdied 10 on both rounds.  I don't think I've ever done that before.

Chose brunch with friends at Omaha's Wheatfields over 18 at Quarry Oaks.  I regret nothing.

Thank you for suggestions!

If you think Duke is a hit it long, then hit it high course now, you should have played it before Rees Jones reworked his father's original design.  Whether or not one is a Rees Jones fan, he did great work on the Duke course to make it as playable as it is.

I go back and forth in my mind on the question of Finley vs. Duke.  On balance, I think Duke is a slightly better golf course IF one is  good player.  Finley is the better golf course for most others, and may be more fun day in and day out for ANY golfer.  But neither really stirs my soul, which is too bad for me; I've just moved back to Durham after being gone for 35 years.  I'm trying hard to figure out where to join, and both Duke and Finley have VERY affordable memberships for alums, which I am of both schools.   But I doubt I'll join either one.

[JJShanley]

I played 36 at Duke last Thursday before my conference.  I'd a decent enough day, but it struck me that the course comes under the "hit in long, then hit it high" heading.  I don't regret playing it twice, but wouldn't rush back.

EDIT to say I birdied 10 on both rounds.  I don't think I've ever done that before.

Chose brunch with friends at Omaha's Wheatfields over 18 at Quarry Oaks.  I regret nothing.

Thank you for suggestions!

If you think Duke is a hit it long, then hit it high course now, you should have played it before Rees Jones reworked his father's original design.  Whether or not one is a Rees Jones fan, he did great work on the Duke course to make it as playable as it is.

I go back and forth in my mind on the question of Finley vs. Duke.  On balance, I think Duke is a slightly better golf course IF one is  good player.  Finley is the better golf course for most others, and may be more fun day in and day out for ANY golfer.  But neither really stirs my soul, which is too bad for me; I've just moved back to Durham after being gone for 35 years.  I'm trying hard to figure out where to join, and both Duke and Finley have VERY affordable memberships for alums, which I am of both schools.   But I doubt I'll join either one.

How very ecumenical of you to have graduated from Dook AND YouEnnSee!


I'd heard that Rees has redone the course recently.  I suppose I felt disappointed that such an exciting property ended up with a track that didn't make the most of topography.  It had the sweeping slopes near the beginning of each nine that reminded me of ANGC (the pines helped in that respect) but then it had just too many holes that failed to impress.  At least two par5s (7 and 11?) ask you to go with a 3-wood or hit two nine irons after you've smoked a drive.  I thought nine a fun hole that made great use of the valley.  I thought 10 an all-world hole .


In terms of campus courses, I got lucky at Notre Dame.  I won't hear anything bad about Warren from anyone, regardless of affiliation.  C&C helped me fall in love with golf again after a hiatus.  I judge others by that standard.  With a bit of luck I'll see the New Haven track next spring!

[A.G._Crockett]

I played 36 at Duke last Thursday before my conference.  I'd a decent enough day, but it struck me that the course comes under the "hit in long, then hit it high" heading.  I don't regret playing it twice, but wouldn't rush back.

EDIT to say I birdied 10 on both rounds.  I don't think I've ever done that before.

Chose brunch with friends at Omaha's Wheatfields over 18 at Quarry Oaks.  I regret nothing.

Thank you for suggestions!

If you think Duke is a hit it long, then hit it high course now, you should have played it before Rees Jones reworked his father's original design.  Whether or not one is a Rees Jones fan, he did great work on the Duke course to make it as playable as it is.

I go back and forth in my mind on the question of Finley vs. Duke.  On balance, I think Duke is a slightly better golf course IF one is  good player.  Finley is the better golf course for most others, and may be more fun day in and day out for ANY golfer.  But neither really stirs my soul, which is too bad for me; I've just moved back to Durham after being gone for 35 years.  I'm trying hard to figure out where to join, and both Duke and Finley have VERY affordable memberships for alums, which I am of both schools.   But I doubt I'll join either one.

How very ecumenical of you to have graduated from Dook AND YouEnnSee!


I'd heard that Rees has redone the course recently.  I suppose I felt disappointed that such an exciting property ended up with a track that didn't make the most of topography.  It had the sweeping slopes near the beginning of each nine that reminded me of ANGC (the pines helped in that respect) but then it had just too many holes that failed to impress.  At least two par5s (7 and 11?) ask you to go with a 3-wood or hit two nine irons after you've smoked a drive.  I thought nine a fun hole that made great use of the valley.  I thought 10 an all-world hole .


In terms of campus courses, I got lucky at Notre Dame.  I won't hear anything bad about Warren from anyone, regardless of affiliation.  C&C helped me fall in love with golf again after a hiatus.  I judge others by that standard.  With a bit of luck I'll see the New Haven track next spring!

The Rees Jones redo at Duke wasn't really all that recent; over 20 years ago, I think.  And you're right; overall the course is less than the piece of land might have allowed.  But whatever the course is now, it is significantly better than the RTJ version.

One of the interesting things to me is that they have flipped the nines from the original design, and for no good reason that I can think of.  I asked one of the starters about it, and he wasn't sure but thought it was so the folks in the pro shop could monitor the first tee, especially when they don't have a starter on duty.  If so, it is one of the worst reasons for flipping 9's that I've ever heard.

But if Duke was a disappointment to you, the redesign of Finley by Tom Fazio in 1999 is far more than that to me.  The original Finley was a classic George Cobb layout that I dearly loved.  I thought Fazio would fix the drainage, regrass the fairways, rebuild the bunkers and greens.  Instead, he blew the whole course up; there is only one hole on the course that more or less follows the original routing (the current #10) and he made that hole significantly worse!  I trace my interest in the GCA to my intense disappointment at playing Fazio's redesign for the first time.  I've moderated my opinion somewhat over the years, but I still think it to be a far inferior course to Cobb's.

[JJShanley]

Funny you should mention their having flipped nines.  I stood on the tenth tee thinking that would have made a better opener, right beside the range and putting green.  18's a poor finisher, while 9's a cracking par-5.  In fact, I think they use a photo of 9 as the backdrop for their homepage.  1's a real brute out of the bag, where you really can't hit driver unless (1) you play from the tips, and (2) you can hit either a controlled raking hook or baby fade.

[A.G._Crockett]

Funny you should mention their having flipped nines.  I stood on the tenth tee thinking that would have made a better opener, right beside the range and putting green.  18's a poor finisher, while 9's a cracking par-5.  In fact, I think they use a photo of 9 as the backdrop for their homepage.  1's a real brute out of the bag, where you really can't hit driver unless (1) you play from the tips, and (2) you can hit either a controlled raking hook or baby fade.

Not only is #9 the better finisher, but it is better now than it used to be when it was #18!  Jones put in a false front, and if you go for it in two and don't carry it, ball can roll 30 yds. back down the hill.  Same with an approach putt to a front pin if you put the ball on the back of the green. 

I think most of the time when a course has the 9's flipped, it is either because the first hole or two create a pace of play problem OR to get a stronger finish.  At Duke, neither of those things are true and the second is directly opposite, so the flip is really mystifying.

[Amol Yajnik]

Funny you should mention their having flipped nines.  I stood on the tenth tee thinking that would have made a better opener, right beside the range and putting green.  18's a poor finisher, while 9's a cracking par-5.  In fact, I think they use a photo of 9 as the backdrop for their homepage.  1's a real brute out of the bag, where you really can't hit driver unless (1) you play from the tips, and (2) you can hit either a controlled raking hook or baby fade.

Not only is #9 the better finisher, but it is better now than it used to be when it was #18!  Jones put in a false front, and if you go for it in two and don't carry it, ball can roll 30 yds. back down the hill.  Same with an approach putt to a front pin if you put the ball on the back of the green. 

I think most of the time when a course has the 9's flipped, it is either because the first hole or two create a pace of play problem OR to get a stronger finish.  At Duke, neither of those things are true and the second is directly opposite, so the flip is really mystifying.

I went to Duke from 1997-2001 and had no idea the 9s were flipped.  Perhaps it was a pace of play issue because 11 is a par 5 and 12 is a par 3, so if those holes were 2 and 3 there might be some backups.  But in the current configuration, 1 is definitely a harder hole than 10.  When I was a student there, my friends and I would go out in the afternoon to pay the twilight rate pretty often, and they would usually start us on 10 so that we would finish up on 9....that walk up the hill on 9 approaching the green was brutal at the end of walking 18 holes.


FWIW, they did a bunch of work on the course during 2000-2001 in preparation for the NCAA Championships, only one of the 9s were open each semester of my senior year.  I'm not sure if that was the work that Rees did that is talked about earlier in this thread, but they put a bunch of money into the course during that time.

[A.G._Crockett]

Funny you should mention their having flipped nines.  I stood on the tenth tee thinking that would have made a better opener, right beside the range and putting green.  18's a poor finisher, while 9's a cracking par-5.  In fact, I think they use a photo of 9 as the backdrop for their homepage.  1's a real brute out of the bag, where you really can't hit driver unless (1) you play from the tips, and (2) you can hit either a controlled raking hook or baby fade.

Not only is #9 the better finisher, but it is better now than it used to be when it was #18!  Jones put in a false front, and if you go for it in two and don't carry it, ball can roll 30 yds. back down the hill.  Same with an approach putt to a front pin if you put the ball on the back of the green. 

I think most of the time when a course has the 9's flipped, it is either because the first hole or two create a pace of play problem OR to get a stronger finish.  At Duke, neither of those things are true and the second is directly opposite, so the flip is really mystifying.

I went to Duke from 1997-2001 and had no idea the 9s were flipped.  Perhaps it was a pace of play issue because 11 is a par 5 and 12 is a par 3, so if those holes were 2 and 3 there might be some backups.  But in the current configuration, 1 is definitely a harder hole than 10.  When I was a student there, my friends and I would go out in the afternoon to pay the twilight rate pretty often, and they would usually start us on 10 so that we would finish up on 9....that walk up the hill on 9 approaching the green was brutal at the end of walking 18 holes.


FWIW, they did a bunch of work on the course during 2000-2001 in preparation for the NCAA Championships, only one of the 9s were open each semester of my senior year.  I'm not sure if that was the work that Rees did that is talked about earlier in this thread, but they put a bunch of money into the course during that time.

That wasn't the Rees Jones work; he completely renovated the course back in 1995 or so.  The course was closed for the better part of a year, I believe; blind tee shots were reduced, less elevation to the greens, drainage improvements, regrassed fairways and greens, the works.

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