MPCC Dunes Course Renovation Videos

[David_Tepper]

Here is one from June:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wliZw-co12o

Here is one from July:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OmDpGZmOac

Further info here:

http://www.jacksonkahndesign.com/mpcc.html
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,
 
Thanks for posting.
 
I've seen these videos and observed the work as recently as last week.
 
I'm incredibly curious about the outcome.
$ 12,000,000 is a lot of money for a renovation, including sand capping and irrigation.
 
I'm more curious about the final style or flavor of the course, especially since the routing has been retained.
 
I happened to really like the Rees Jones renovation with some exceptions.
 
I understand that the first three holes, as they climb away from the clubhouse seemed repititious, but, that's understandable as they're all uphill holes.
While they were similar, macro, they were different, micro.
 
Thanks again for posting.

[Gary Sato]

Here is a thread I started some time ago about Tom Fazio not giving a shit about history or Seth Raynor or MPCC.  The guy is an ego maniac who is willing to destroy any classic course in the world if they let him.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59219.0.html

[Patrick_Mucci]

Here is a thread I started some time ago about Tom Fazio not giving a shit about history or Seth Raynor or MPCC.  The guy is an ego maniac who is willing to destroy any classic course in the world if they let him.


Gary,

Just keep in mind that Fazio can't change anything without membership consent.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59219.0.html

[David_Tepper]

Gary -

My understanding is MPCC was presented with a proposal by a well known GCA to do a sympathetic Raynor-inspired restoration of the Dunes course. They declined and hired Fazio & associates instead. In this case, MPCC clearly "let him."

DT   

[Gary Sato]

Gary -

My understanding is MPCC was presented with a proposal by a well known GCA to do a sympathetic Raynor-inspired restoration of the Dunes course. They declined and hired Fazio & associates instead. In this case, MPCC clearly "let him."

DT   

Yes and no.  The club went through a formal process of hiring an architect and Brian Silva was selected.


After some point, the club and Silva could not agree on a plan and Silva was either fired or quit. 


Tom Fazio who was working on Spyglass contacted the club and asked if he could take a look.  Fazio was hired shortly after without an open bid process.


Fazio as usual discussed some small changes and then then some larger changes.  At some point Fazio charmed the board and suggested they blow it up and build an entire new course.  They bought it hook, line and sinker.


Thank god Cypress Point saw the light and fired Fazio before he bulldozed CPC.  He has charmed many boards into his web. 


Look what he did recently at River Oaks in Houston.  A proper restoration of the Donald Ross course would have resulted in the best Ross course in Texas.  Instead he gave them the 3rd best Fazio course in Houston.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Some things caught me eye during the videos about the construction process:


-That looked like a lot of drainage pipe for a place that is called Dunes Course, and is sandcapping.
- Sandcapping with a skidsteer.
- Box blade and tractor on the green.
- Interesting shaping and topsoiling process for building the bunkers.






Nothing really usual here, just a different method and process then I am used to, which is why it caught my eye.

[Joel_Stewart]

I don't think the math is difficult.

Fazios fee $2 million.
Jackson Kahn fee $500k
Construction Co fee $1.5 million
Sand capping $1 million
Irrigation & drainage $2 million
Cart paths $1 million

It all adds up.

If I remember correctly, the GM at MPCC makes over $500K per year so this club just blows money for the hell of it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I don't think the math is difficult.

Fazios fee $2 million.
Jackson Kahn fee $500k
Construction Co fee $1.5 million
Sand capping $1 million
Irrigation & drainage $2 million
Cart paths $1 million

It all adds up.
 
That's only 8 million, where's the other 4 million ?

If I remember correctly, the GM at MPCC makes over $500K per year so this club just blows money for the hell of it.

I'm not so sure about that.
It's one heck of a club, great membership, great food, great setting, great golf courses, great conditioning.
 
I'd surmise that the GM is paid, commensurate, with his performance.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Gary -

My understanding is MPCC was presented with a proposal by a well known GCA to do a sympathetic Raynor-inspired restoration of the Dunes course. They declined and hired Fazio & associates instead. In this case, MPCC clearly "let him."

DT   

Yes and no.  The club went through a formal process of hiring an architect and Brian Silva was selected.


After some point, the club and Silva could not agree on a plan and Silva was either fired or quit.
 
I thought that Gil Hanse was involved at some point.
Am I mistaken

Tom Fazio who was working on Spyglass contacted the club and asked if he could take a look.  Fazio was hired shortly after without an open bid process.
 
Are you positive that the club didn't contact him ?

Fazio as usual discussed some small changes and then then some larger changes.  At some point Fazio charmed the board and suggested they blow it up and build an entire new course.  They bought it hook, line and sinker.
 
That's not quite what happened.
Fazio's formal plan was presented to the "membership" and they approved it.
 
The Board did not act alone.

Thank god Cypress Point saw the light and fired Fazio before he bulldozed CPC. He has charmed many boards into his web. 
 
I was unaware that CPC had formally retained Fazio as their consultant.
C&C are their current consultants.
Are you sure that CPC entered into a formal agreement with Fazio ?
I don't know, but would be surprised.......... somewhat.
 
He's the consulting architect at Pine Valley.
 
Surprisingly to some, he did a great job replicating the big course, on the short course, so he is capable of "faithful"  restorations.  

Look what he did recently at River Oaks in Houston.  A proper restoration of the Donald Ross course would have resulted in the best Ross course in Texas.  Instead he gave them the 3rd best Fazio course in Houston.
 
Gary, must I remind you again, that Fazio didn't do anything without the membership's consent.

[Adam Clayman]

What's 24m when it's accentuating 100's of millions of $'s of real estate?

I'm just amazed the CCC approved this extensive work. 20 years ago the guy who has the house just off the 12th tee at PG couldn't move 6 feet of dirt. 

My buddy reports they're building dunescapes almost 24/7 with some very big machines.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

The CCC also approved the prior project directed by Rees, so perhaps they're becoming reasonable

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Fazio and his dirt moving

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

[Adam Clayman]

Speaking of sense of place, before Strantz was even a glimmer in Uncle Boab's eye, the actual area where this club's courses came into contact with the PCH, was flat as a pancake, with only ribbons of fairway visible amongst the dreaded Iceplant. And Deer. It was odd, but none the less special.

 Truthfully, I'm confident that this course will be a fantastic addition to the art of the peninsula. Home of the Thomas Kincaid museum. I just hope Momma nature treats her well.

[Derek Dirksen]

Jaeger,

A lot of the company's here in the US are using track skids to do their finish grading these days. U have to really use angles to get it finished properly.  Ive seen companies use track skids to push mix on greens.
     Btw, that wasn't a box blade on that tractor it was a shaping blade. It's about half the weight of a traditional box blade. When used right it takes no time to finish a green.  I like to push mix with a dozer. Water it and wheel roll it with a tractor and then blade it off. Touch it up with the sandpro. 

[Joel_Stewart]

I was there on Wednesday and see Fazio is taking careful calculations to preserve the Seth Raynor look and feel. 


The par 3 on the ocean is completely torn up. 


My host at Cypress Point predicts it will look like a resort course in Hawaii which is exactly what Fazio wants.

Fazio and his dirt moving

[Don Mahaffey]

Joel,
Are you assuming that the club hired Fazio to restore Raynor?
Whether you like their work or not, one thing the Fazio's are not is dishonest.
They tell it like it is in terms of what they plan to do.
Then, it is up to the club to decide whether to hire them or not.

Unlike so many in this business, they have never claimed to be restoration experts.
They are what they are and the clubs know that going in.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joel,


Don iscorrect.


Fabio submitted detailed plans to the club prior to getting approval.


The par 3 on the ocean is NOT a Raynor hole, it's a Rees Jones hole

[David_Tepper]

What I am curious about with this project is what work is being done in the Jackson-Kahn shop vs. the Fazio shop. The Jackson-Kahn shop gives the impression of being very involved with the project.

http://www.jacksonkahndesign.com/mpcc.html

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,
 
I spent some time with Bob Zoller while he was walking his faithful companion when I was playing the 17th and 18th holes at Pebble Beach, but, I never thought to inquire about the Dunes project.
 
We mostly talked about his new pup, who was less than a year old.
 
I have to remember to keep dog biscuits in my golf bag as many superintendents have their dogs with them when they're at the course.
 
Another opportunity lost.

[Anthony Fowler]

I don't know which, if any, of the greens/holes on the Dunes Course were more or less Raynor originals, but it really bothers me to see a valuable work of art blown up and completely redone with bulldozers. How would we feel if a museum curator scraped the paint off a Monet, created a new painting in a similar but more modern style on the same canvas, and called it a "sympathetic restoration"? If you don't like that, then you shouldn't like this either.


I don't know anything about the internal process, so I have no reason to think the architects and contractors weren't upfront about their plans. For all I know, this is exactly what the members wanted. But personally, I would be much more cautious in working on a site of historic and artistic value. 


For the well-regarded restorations out there, I would be curious to see what they looked like as a point of comparison. For example, when Doak et al. worked on Pasatiempo, I doubt it looked as destructive as this.

[Tim_Weiman]

Joel,
Are you assuming that the club hired Fazio to restore Raynor?
Whether you like their work or not, one thing the Fazio's are not is dishonest.
They tell it like it is in terms of what they plan to do.
Then, it is up to the club to decide whether to hire them or not.

Unlike so many in this business, they have never claimed to be restoration experts.
They are what they are and the clubs know that going in.

Don,


I'm no expert on Fazio, but your description of Fazio is consistent with my understanding. Don't know how anyone who does their homework would be surprised.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

No doubt that Fazio is not a bait and switch type, but he is an incredible salesman for his product.  The frustration for most golf course architecture aficionados is that golf committees continue to bite into his charm; hook, line and sinker!