[Jud_T]

Proof positive that these lists are a complete joke:


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/illinois-best-in-state-rankings


Ivanhoe above Exmoor?  Conway over Beverly and Black Sheep? Merit Club over Butterfield? Not to mention Rich Harvest above Shoreacres and Skokie.  Ugh.... 


P.S.  Where the eff is Old Elm?  Not tough enough for these wanks?  There's bad, really bad and utterly ridiculous.  This would be the latter.

[Terry Lavin]

Some head scratchers, to be sure, but OFCC has both in top ten and Skokie gets some love too. Canyata and Rich Harvest take up spots that should go to Knollwood and Old Elm. And the North Shore and Flossmoor omissions are galling.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Could access be an issue with Old Elm with not enough raters having a chance to see it?

[Scott McWethy]

Jud & Terry, your observations are dead on.  Just because a course has hosted a few tournaments doesn't make it worthy of being so high on a list.  No offense to Bull Valley, but seriously!  How do you put Conway and Rich Harvest that high!!  I'll never understand the love for Cantigny.  Nice place but doesn't hold a candle to a lot of other venues in Illinois.  The good thing is that we know better.

[Terry Lavin]

Could access be an issue with Old Elm with not enough raters having a chance to see it?

Probably so. They were closed last year as well. While I'm at it, the new version is much better than the prior iteration. The short grass around all of the greens has lent a new look and four or more shots in difficulty. The bunker work by Dave Zinkland is exceptional. It wasn't a Top Ten in town before, but it is now. All of the flab is gone, revealing those awesome Colt bones.

[Andrew Buck]

Lol, I'd split 100 rounds between Black Sheep and Rich Harvest at 100-0 black Sheep.

[Tom_Doak]

To be fair, it's hard to rank a bunch of courses that are all 6's and 5's with any sort of authority.


I would have to think Old Elm just doesn't have enough votes, considering they will make no concessions to raters of any ilk.

[Bill_McBride]

To be fair, it's hard to rank a bunch of courses that are all 6's and 5's with any sort of authority.


I would have to think Old Elm just doesn't have enough votes, considering they will make no concessions to raters of any ilk.

I wonder how many raters played Chicago GC?   

[Scott McWethy]

To be fair, it's hard to rank a bunch of courses that are all 6's and 5's with any sort of authority.


I would have to think Old Elm just doesn't have enough votes, considering they will make no concessions to raters of any ilk.

Tom, that actually stings a little bit being a member at one of those 5's and 6's!

[PThomas]

two hopefully non obvious thoughts
Wynstone should be higher
Bob O Link should be lower...I hope I get to see Jim's  work
and  shouldnt Glen View be on the list?  I havent played but was out there while Jim was working and it looked pretty good
and 2 more I havent played: what about Barrington and Bryn Mawr?

[Ronald Montesano]

What Tom wrote about the 5s and 6s isn't insulting, but it might merit a bit of clarification. From my seat, he is saying that it's difficult to discern which 5 is better than the other 5s and the same with the 6s. If your club is a 5 or a 6, and made the list, rejoice. If it didn't, don't sweat the small stuff.

[Mark Pavy]

I apply the Pavy scale to the Doak scale and 5 or 6 becomes 75/100 or 80/100 

[Andrew Buck]

To be fair, it's hard to rank a bunch of courses that are all 6's and 5's with any sort of authority.


I would have to think Old Elm just doesn't have enough votes, considering they will make no concessions to raters of any ilk.

Tom, that actually stings a little bit being a member at one of those 5's and 6's!

I think Tom notoriously has a slightly harsher scale than most (perhaps because of the number of places he's played), however he seems to be including one of his designs in the group of 5's and 6's, so I wouldn't take it too harsh.

That said, I certainly think the Golf Week rankings do a much better job of evaluating your club.

[JReese]

Any chance GD intentionally lists/omits a few courses that have no business being rated where they are just to create more buzz?

[Mark Smolens]

Lol, I'd split 100 rounds between Black Sheep and Rich Harvest at 100-0 black Sheep.

As someone said at the recent Darius Oliver talk at Miller's Pub, "Rich Harvest is the second best course in Sugar Grove."

[Andrew Buck]

Lol, I'd split 100 rounds between Black Sheep and Rich Harvest at 100-0 black Sheep.

As someone said at the recent Darius Oliver talk at Miller's Pub, "Rich Harvest is the second best course in Sugar Grove."

let's see



vs




All this said, I do admire Rich Harvest for their commitment to amateur and junior golf.  Just hard to believe it gets ranked so lofty.

[John Kavanaugh]

I could never rank a 27 hole course on an 18 hole scale. They always confuse the hell out of me.

[Terry Lavin]

I could never rank a 27 hole course on an 18 hole scale. They always confuse the hell out of me.

For the same reason, I can't rank Dunes Club against courses with twice as many holes.

[Nick Spears]

I cant speak as in depth as all of you about state rankings in Illinois, simply because I havent played hardly any of them since theyre all private. The two I have played (Medinah #3 and Rich Harvest) usually take a beating from you guys. My biggest problem with Illinois' rankings is the lack of public courses. Im not saying the public courses are worthy of the distinction, Im saying that while there are some good tracks, theres nothing that remotely moves the needle for me or the raters. Look at Wisconsin! Not only do the cheeseheads make me jealous in football, but its worse in golf! Michigan has better public courses. Heck, Id rather drive 6 hours to French Lick to play the Ross and Dye courses than play anything in Illinois. For as big of city that Chicago is, its a shame we (I) have to go to another state to play a top 100 course. Sorry for the rant.

[John Kavanaugh]

Nick,


I lived and played golf in Chicago as a young man starting a family from 1984 to 88. Chicago, as it should, provided me and other hard working middle class golfers with the best affordable public golf that may exist in this country. Chicago is the face of the middle class of America and it's golf culture reflects that. This is a perfect case of an outsider not getting it.  Screw your Wisconsin resorts.

[Adam Lawrence]

Could access be an issue with Old Elm with not enough raters having a chance to see it?

Probably so. They were closed last year as well. While I'm at it, the new version is much better than the prior iteration. The short grass around all of the greens has lent a new look and four or more shots in difficulty. The bunker work by Dave Zinkland is exceptional. It wasn't a Top Ten in town before, but it is now. All of the flab is gone, revealing those awesome Colt bones.

Yeah, I agree totally. A fantastic piece of work by Drew Rogers.

[Andrew Buck]

I cant speak as in depth as all of you about state rankings in Illinois, simply because I havent played hardly any of them since theyre all private. The two I have played (Medinah #3 and Rich Harvest) usually take a beating from you guys. My biggest problem with Illinois' rankings is the lack of public courses. Im not saying the public courses are worthy of the distinction, Im saying that while there are some good tracks, theres nothing that remotely moves the needle for me or the raters. Look at Wisconsin! Not only do the cheeseheads make me jealous in football, but its worse in golf! Michigan has better public courses. Heck, Id rather drive 6 hours to French Lick to play the Ross and Dye courses than play anything in Illinois. For as big of city that Chicago is, its a shame we (I) have to go to another state to play a top 100 course. Sorry for the rant.

While I concede there isn't an abundance of true great public golf courses in Illinois, I also think Chicago/Illinois gets a bit of a bad rap.  Most of the "great" public golf in Michigan and Wisconsin are resorts as opposed to public access that serves a population, and many exist in part to serve Chicago's population. 

There have been some recent additions, like Highlands of Elgin and Bowes Creek that I find very enjoyable, and reasonably priced (particularly Highlands).  While I'm not a huge fan of Dubsdred (post Jones), it's a quality course capable of challenging the best.  There's some muni's with great bones like Forest Perserve National (Dunne), reasonable upscale daily fee (Prairie Landings, Glen Club) and some under-appreciated layouts that aren't in perfect shape like Heritage Bluffs.  Get outside Chicago, and Illinois is home to one of the more enjoyable tour courses which can be played for under $100, and small towns from Belvidere, to Kankakee, to Pontiac to Monmouth and throughout the state have no shortage of nice, if quirky affordable golf that can be walked for about $20. 

Most, not all, public golf options that find themselves on top 100 rankings really serve a region more than their local area anyway.  While there is likely a shortage of courses that would get lofty rankings on the Doak scale, and it may not make sense to book a trip to Illinois to see it's public golf, I do think there are a lot of courses capable of serving the public to fine experiences.   

[John Kavanaugh]

When I lived in Chicago I didn't have the good fortune to play even one of the courses listed in the top 25.  Pine Meadow was always a treat, I lived on Bonnie Brook in Waukegan and recall a nice public along the interstate in Deerfield....but my all time favorite was a public in North Chicago.  One thing about public golf in Chicago, you better be ready to bring it if you comment on the slow play, or looks, of the group in front you.  But that was the 80's when honorable men only used fists.  Today you better just keep your head down and your mouth shut.

[J_ Crisham]

Some head scratchers, to be sure, but OFCC has both in top ten and Skokie gets some love too. Canyata and Rich Harvest take up spots that should go to Knollwood and Old Elm. And the North Shore and Flossmoor omissions are galling.

Given the impressive recent work at Shoreacres and Old Elm, the top 3 in Chicago are now pretty much interchangeable. My list is tier based:
Tier 1: CGC, OLd Elm, Shoreacres
Tier 2: Medinah 3, OFCC North, Butler, Skokie, Beverly, Glenview Club
Tier 3: OFCC South, Flossmoor, Medinah 1, Black Sheep, Conway, North Shore, Exmoor, Lake Shore, Edgewood Valley

[Phil McDade]

When I lived in Chicago I didn't have the good fortune to play even one of the courses listed in the top 25.  Pine Meadow was always a treat, I lived on Bonnie Brook in Waukegan and recall a nice public along the interstate in Deerfield....but my all time favorite was a public in North Chicago.  One thing about public golf in Chicago, you better be ready to bring it if you comment on the slow play, or looks, of the group in front you.  But that was the 80's when honorable men only used fists.  Today you better just keep your head down and your mouth shut.

Good to see a mention of Bonnie Brook here, a well-done James Foulis course that has a steady dose of regulars who will keep the one-time visitor on his/her toes with pace of play. Some solid golf there at muni prices.

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