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A_Clay_Man

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2003, 08:54:49 AM »
Huck- I'm glad you received my ribbing in the spirit it was intended. (Without a smiley) I was concerned that the tone might not come over as intended, but knew you would know that with a week til our matches, I would never dis anyone who's matches are so pivotal. Not to mention cross-gendered.

TEPaul

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2003, 09:44:48 AM »
TomH:

You're darn right I want to play well when I go to a great golf course. Without even thinking about it that's got to be just instinctual at least it always has so far. Maybe that's changing a bit now though as I get older, the game starts slipping away and other interests such as architecture take over.

But basically I'm almost completely incapable of observing and appreciating architecture the first time I play a great place--any place really. It's always been that way with me no matter how hard I want to look at the architecture.

To really look at, appreciate and analyze architecture is about a 4-5 step process for me, probably over that many days.

Now for PVGC, I just love the place, been playing there for years and basically know the place in most all areas of it like the back of my hand--and I've had a lot of help in that from some of my friends down there.

But I'm confronting myself with this aweful dilemma right now. The Crump Cup is coming up in a few weeks. I've been playing that for maybe 15 years now through the mid-am division and now into the Senior's division every single year except for one year when a great great aunt of mine became a Saint (the canonization was a life inspiring trip that could not possibly be missed although the Catholic Church really pisses me off). They thought apparently that was a good enough excuse to give me a pass--or was that the Lesley Cup--memory's failing me!  And another year (2001) when they gave the competitors the option of taking a pass due to 9/11 which had obviously just happened--a beautiful and compassionate option on their part, I might add. Basically you get the drift though--one does not pass even one time on the Crump for mundane reasons!

But I'm looking at the qualifying pairings right now and man there are some good players in the senior division and only 8 of them qualify out of 27. I'm definitely concerned about that. But a year ago, I think it was, I missed the seniors division (because it's so small) but qualified in the mid-am division (its so much larger). I believe they always give all seniors that option if they can pull it off. That explains too why they put all us old guys off the tips in the two day 36 hole qualifying with the younger guys!

I'll take my chances but I'm really thinking if I play well and certainly if I don't this has to be my last year in the tournament--I just ain't got that kind of game anymore or sure do feel like I don't. If you don't qualify for two years in a row your automatically out--no questions asked. At least one year I didn't qualify and you want to talk about stroke play pressure that next year in qualifying--that was as intense as I've basically ever experienced--knowing if you miss that day your career in that tourney is history.

Call it pride, I don't know, but I'd just rather call it a day on my own than be tossed out for missing twice in succession. I think I do have that much respect for that course, that club, that tournament and that field to think this way.

What a dilemma though--I just love that club, course and that tournament--it really is the ultimate in my book. But all good things must come to an end.

How would I feel if I got really lucky and made the mid-am division and drew somebody like Trip Kuehne in the 1st round? At a place like PVGC in something like the Crump and its super intense set-up that kind of thing can actually happen. It has to me before. Over the years I've run into the likes of Sigel, Holtgrieve, Hadden, Hirsch, Cowan and some other good ones I can't even recall now.

With my ultra short off the tee but straight game I never even got mentally intimidated either--except one time--against Sigel--that was different and I never took a drubbing like that before or since. Any of you out there could've got beat less bad than I did that day. But if I got lucky and drew Kuehne--I don't know--I think I'd rather just be a spectator watching him now not an opponent of his. I just saw his action over at the Walker Cup! Man alive--I'd rather just watch that than compete against it.

But anyway, after golfnooch's terrific post about his impressions of that great golf course, I thought why not give you my own too? I hope PVGC doesn't mind!

All good things must come to an end someday--and this should be it for me down there. But just like Bob Hope used to say; "Thanks for the memories". PVGC truly does deserve to be where it is now, in my book--#1 in the whole world!

Thank you Pine Valley--and thanks to the guy who made it all happen in the first place--George Crump.


GeoffreyC

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2003, 11:32:08 AM »
Great stuff one and all.

What a great place that is. Lets not forget that it was their membership and professional that had two charity events that opened the course to the public and all proceeds went to the fund to help the victims of the World Trade Center disaster. We didn't see Augusta doing that!

Tom Paul-  there is no dishonor what so ever to try your best at the Crump Cup and not qualify a second year in a row. Why not give it a shot.  Its an honor in itself to be a part of that tournament and all of us are jeolous of your opportunities.  Do it man! Get in there and kick Kuehne's butt with your short game.  It will drive him nuts. Regardless, don't give up a special event.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2003, 06:18:27 PM »
My only hole-in-one was on the 17th at Pinehurst #2, so I don't bother to make goals anymore.  I was so fired up I swung about 200 mph on the 18th tee and hit a huge quacker.  Good thing it didn't happen early in the round or I would have shot 100.


Funny how different people react to things like that.  I got my first ace on Carnoustie's 16th (Tom Watson's "hardest short hole in the world") in 1991 and proceeded to par 17 and 18.  My caddie said he'd be been there for over 30 years and never seen anyone play the last three in -2 before.  Never would have bet on that as I'd started the first nine with an attack of duck hooks and barely broke 50, and one hopped a huge tee shot into the head of a caddie on the group ahead on #10 -- my caddie told the caddie I hit "he hasn't hit a good one all day, I didn't know he could hit that far!"

I guess I was kind of numb after that, but after doubling 10 (bad bounce off the caddie's head into the deep rough) I turned it around and upon adding it up found I'd managed a 49-38=87.  Not bad to finish up even on the last 8, even if I did have some help from the golf gods on #16.  It really didn't fully hit me that I'd had a hole in one until later.

As far as Pine Valley goes, I don't have any comment other than that I'm jealous.  But its nice to read the account because its likely that's as close as I'll ever come to playing there myself.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2003, 07:42:02 PM »
Keep in mind that the Crump Cup is coming up on Sunday, Sept 28 @1pm...  It's a once-a-year chance to experience great golf at the (IMHO) world's greatest golf course.

And thanks for the reminder of how PV opened up after 9/11/01.  Not for publicity - for the good or our country.  (I just wish I'd have known they were offering up the spots - I'd have gladly paid up!)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2003, 07:43:18 PM by danherrmann »

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2003, 09:00:18 PM »
golfnooch:

I agree that Pine Valley can be quite penal - witness what happened to you on #'s 5, 7 and 10.

BUT, Pine Valley has some great strategy happening on almost every hole.  The way (your caddy had) you play #15 (the greatest par 5 on earth IMO) is the quintessential example.  #6 is another one.

Any others impress you that way?  I've got my candidates.

TEPaul

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2003, 10:12:57 AM »
Chip:

I completely agree with you about #6 PVGC. The tee shot on that hole (depending on whose playing and from the correct tees and markers) is one of the world's best strategic drives in both club selection, distance AND direction. Not just that but the look of that tee shot is one of the best I've ever seen anywhere.

There's even a little something (tographically) leading up to and right at the apex of the left of the big bunker that's both unseen from the tee and extremely nuancy. In other words, you'd better know just how far you're carrying the ball if you're going to skirt along the very left side of that bunker. The ground there is much more collecting into that bunker than most realize or can see.

While I'd recommend that all of PVGC be left alone and not touched that green placement is one I might make an exception. It's a completely well known fact that Crump wanted to and intended to move that green back, perhaps up to 50 yds (from his old green not this present Alison one)!

I think they might just go with Crump's known wish and place that green another 30-40 yds farther back at the very end of that ridge with it's right side hanging on that ridge. That green is a marvelous Alison creation and it could be exactly duplicated back at the end of the ridge. That alteration would make that entire hole world-class!

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2003, 10:34:19 AM »
What happened to the shower? A very important aspect of the PV experience (Merion as well).

You never forget your first visit to PV. It is usually a very special experience. The thing that has always impressed me about PV is how comfortable you are made to feel. You expect to feel intimidated but that feeling is quickly dissipated by welcoming staff.

Clarification: I have been told that the "V" shaped left bunker on #10 is referred to as the Devil's Wife's Vagina.

I have often enjoyed a the very refreshing combination of grape juice, vodka, and ginger ale at PV as well as other clubs in the Philly area known as a "transfusion". The vigin version is also very good!


Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2003, 11:41:26 AM »
Actually the very narrow bunker on #10 is most frequently referred to as the "Witch's Clitoris."
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2003, 11:51:07 AM »
Mr. slapper -

Wouldn't an abbreviation be more mellifluous?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

TEPaul

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2003, 12:18:15 PM »
"Clarification: I have been told that the "V" shaped left bunker on #10 is referred to as the Devil's Wife's Vagina."

"Actually the very narrow bunker on #10 is most frequently referred to as the "Witch's Clitoris."

Neither of those two labels are true. Those two noms were alternative recommendations by Harry Colt who apparently designed #10 and who despite being a seemingly reserved and proper English gentleman had a very dirty mind. His recommendation of those two alternative names for that bunker is one of reasons Crump became disenchanted with Colt and told him to leave PV after only a single week and then arranged that Colt could never again return to this country! This is just all further evidence of that fact that PVGC was almost totally designed by Crump himself and not that foul-mouthed Colt.    ;)

Furthermore, on the issue of women at PVGC and the reputation of the club as being one that does not accomodate women is really not so true--at least not in the mind of George Crump. Documentation has recently been unearthed that in 1917 Crump purchased a good deal more land which is still today the holding of PVGC.

What did he do that for? Well some say it was for protection for the club but a newspaper interview article from 1917 now reveals that Crump apparently bought that land to build a second golf course there when he finished the present course. And what was that second course to be used for? Hold your hats fellows, it was to be designed by Crump with the input of renowned players such as Alexis Sterling EXCLUSIVELY for WOMEN! No part of the design, according to Crump in that newspaper article was to be with men players in mind!   ;)

« Last Edit: September 15, 2003, 12:20:09 PM by TEPaul »

golfnooch

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2003, 01:32:32 PM »
my this topic has morphed, eh?

to try to answer any of the questions above...

How I was invited...i work for a gentleman who is very good friends with an older member, and was invited by association.

as far as strategy, i think that ALL of the holes required a strategic decision.  I relied heavily on the advice of the caddie as I was not familiar with how to play the course. I cite the strategy on each hole different, but they all fall into similar categories...

1 - how far back to leave the approach shot...i.e 2nd shot on 15
2 - where on the green to hit to allow the ball to funnel...tee shot on 3 or the approach on 17
3 - how much of a corner/trouble area to cut over...6 tee shot or 16 tee shot
4 - which side of the hole to err on...don't go long on #1 green, short is better, meaning less club more swing.
5 - trajectory of a shot...#4 which favors a bump and run, or a low running approach shot
6 - and the hardest lesson to learn...what to do when in trouble...take your medicine!!!

I would say that the top 3 strategic decisions that my caddie and I made all day were, 1) how much to cut off the corner on #6, 2) what to hit on the second shot on #15 to leave the perfect distance to the pin, and 3) what to hit into #1 green to give myself a solid start and stay way from the valleys to the sides and back of the green.

As far as the anatomical references on #10, whatever that bunker on the left is called did not matter to me, because it was not a fun shot to have to hit no matter her hygiene!

Also, women are allowed on the course, but only on sundays after 3pm, as the member told me.

Finally, I didnt get time to take a shower (i didnt bring a change of clothes and wasnt aware of the very nice facilities) but i was a huge fan of the stack of warm towels near every sink to wash up with.

golfnooch

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2003, 01:46:04 PM »
...also, i took digi pics of every tee and approach shot...would it be out of line to post a few pictures?  (im not sure how pv members feel about hole pictures being posted on a discussion board?)

TEPaul

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2003, 01:51:05 PM »
golfnooch:

My sense and understanding is PV doesn't feel all that sanguine about photos on the Internet and such. Just telling what my understanding has always been. Sorry about that.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2003, 01:52:17 PM »
nooch,
Ran has a bunch of great pics of PV up on this site.  I'm guessing that PV wouldn't mind a few good pics!

PAW13

Re:My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2003, 11:48:35 AM »
TPaul, don't hang up your spikes just yet at the Crump.

You hit it too straight not to be a factor down there.  Besides playing with Kuehne is fun (I played him last year in the 2nd flight).  A course like PV nuetralizes his length.

Nooch enjoyed your "play by play".  My first experience was a smooth 141 when I was 11 years old. This was back in the 70's when we would go down on labor day weekend when no one was around.  Even beat one of my father's friends score.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2008, 08:48:46 AM »
I just wanted to bump this  -  Reading nooch's account of his day at Pine Valley makes me remember why I got into GCA in the first place.  Hope you enjoyed it.

Pete Stankevich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2008, 11:02:36 AM »
Thanks for the bump Dan.
It brought me back to my 2004 round there.
Amazing how many things he mentioned were exactly as I thought about them, both then and now.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2008, 02:21:59 PM »
Fun post. Pine Valley, in my estimation, must be a singular and unparalleled experience in the realm of golf.

Does anyone know the exact dates during which the Crump Cup will be held this year? I figure that's probably the only likely way of seeing the place.

Is anyone else keen to attend?
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2008, 06:38:17 PM »
Kyle, it's usually the 3rd Sunday of September.  I've attended two CC's and one Philly Open - as a spectator  - and it's time well spent.   No ropes, friendly members marshaling, good golf, and sensory overload (in a good way). 

Patrick Glynn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pine Valley
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2008, 06:44:25 PM »
Great post - enjoyed the read :D

PAW13

Re: My Day At Pine Valley
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2008, 09:20:59 AM »
Crump Cup Final this year is on Sunday September 28th.

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