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Kevin Pallier

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Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« on: July 22, 2015, 01:45:46 AM »
Jerry K's recent topic got me thinking.


St. Andrews (Old), Shinnecock Hills (1931), Pine Valley (1915), Merion (1912) arguably 4 of the Top 5 courses of all time only have two P5's on their scorecards. I appreciate that overtime technology has played a part in affecting same but with a great variety and mix of P4's (amongst other things) these courses are highly revered.


What other "great" courses out there have only two P5's (or less) ? When were they built ?


Why don't modern designers copy such a "template" per se ?

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 02:02:03 AM »
Pasatiempo, Old White at Greenbrier and Aronimink all have only two par 5s.
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Frank Pont

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 02:45:15 AM »
Swinley Forest, West Sussex

Tyler Page

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 03:21:06 AM »
Wentworth East - Harry Colt - 1924


It is a par 68 with only one par five, and frankly, the one par five is the easiest scoring hole on the course (and laid out on similar terrain with an easier approach than the preceding par 4 which is only about 50 yards shorter).


Wentworth usually gets trashed by the architecture-ati for the disaster that has befallen the West course (which seemed overrated before the makeover), but the East course is a charming track that is great fun and has a wonderful variety of holes.

Brent Hutto

Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 06:35:05 AM »
I may be alone in judging Royal St. David's as a great course, certainly a very good one in any case. It has but two Par 5's and they are back to back (7th and 8th). They are also darned near parallel to boot.


Admittedly this is the weakest aspect of the routing IMHO.

Sam Krume

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 06:43:30 AM »
I think you would also have to include Rye in this list. It has only one par 5 and that is the 1st..

Tim Martin

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 07:18:53 AM »
Wannamoisett has one par 5 on 17.
Yale has two on 16 and 18.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 02:16:56 PM by Tim Martin »

Ian Andrew

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 07:41:48 AM »
Plymouth Country Club (Ross)

1 - at the 16th

Interestingly there are five fours over 450
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Tim Martin

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 08:18:55 AM »
Plymouth Country Club (Ross)

1 - at the 16th

Interestingly there are five fours over 450


CC of Waterbury(Ross) has 1 at the 9th


Chris DeToro

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 08:31:34 AM »
Wannamoisett has a lone par 5, today, though the original routing played the long 2nd hole as a par 5.  I'm fairly certain it played as a par 5 during the 1931 PGA, but I'm unclear as to when it changed to a par 4.  But today, it's a par 69 with just the par 5 17th

Brad Tufts

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 08:36:08 AM »
Concord CC in Mass....1/17...although 5 is the most likely score on par 4s at 2/3/4/16.


Essex County in Mass...3/5...and #3 is 625, and #5 is only 460.


I think Elie has zero?
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tim Martin

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 08:43:17 AM »
Wannamoisett has a lone par 5, today, though the original routing played the long 2nd hole as a par 5.  I'm fairly certain it played as a par 5 during the 1931 PGA, but I'm unclear as to when it changed to a par 4.  But today, it's a par 69 with just the par 5 17th


I remember a few years ago getting a call from a friend who said he just got to play Wannamoisett and didn't know what all the fuss was about on the 2nd hole as "I made 5". I told him that was great but that the hole was a par 4. ;D

Brent Hutto

Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2015, 08:49:21 AM »
Wannamoisett has a lone par 5, today, though the original routing played the long 2nd hole as a par 5.  I'm fairly certain it played as a par 5 during the 1931 PGA, but I'm unclear as to when it changed to a par 4.  But today, it's a par 69 with just the par 5 17th


I remember a few years ago getting a call from a friend who said he just got to play Wannamoisett and didn't know what all the fuss was about on the 2nd hole as "I made 5". I told him that was great but that the hole was a par 4. ;D


Ganton has three Par 5's but one of them is quite short, around 438 from the visitors tees. I played there for a week in 2012 and kept hitting into the numerous bunkers on the hole, racking up 6's and 7's and "others". Finally on my very last round I hit the fairway with my tee shot, hit it again with my second and knocked an 8-iron onto the green about 10 feet from the hole.


Here's the thing. I had been thinking all week it was a Par 4. And it was the only hole I had not parred at least once. So when the putt misssed I tapped into for 5 and told the member I had joined up with on the first tee, "This is the only hole I can't figure out how to make par". He pointed out that it was, in fact, a Par 5 and I'd just parred it!


Guess it serves me right for not carrying a scorecard.

David_Tepper

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2015, 08:57:49 AM »
Like many older courses in GB&I, Brora used to have one par-5 and a par of less than 70. A couple of years ago the 11th hole was converted to a par-5, to raise the par for the course to 70.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2015, 09:06:35 AM »
Royal Cinque Ports (Deal) has only two par 5s... 3 & 5.

There used to be three, but the powers that be just converted #16 into a par four.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Chris DeToro

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 09:07:58 AM »
Wannamoisett has a lone par 5, today, though the original routing played the long 2nd hole as a par 5.  I'm fairly certain it played as a par 5 during the 1931 PGA, but I'm unclear as to when it changed to a par 4.  But today, it's a par 69 with just the par 5 17th


I remember a few years ago getting a call from a friend who said he just got to play Wannamoisett and didn't know what all the fuss was about on the 2nd hole as "I made 5". I told him that was great but that the hole was a par 4. ;D

Ha, I said the same thing when I finished the hole for the first time.  Made a nice up and down for 4 thinking it was a birdie

Brent Hutto

Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 09:09:18 AM »
Royal Cinque Ports (Deal) has only two par 5s... 3 & 5.

There used to be three, but the powers that be just converted #16 into a par four.


That's another one that I initially thought was a hell of a hard Par 4 until Mark or Tony or someone reminded me it is (was) a 5. I guess now I'm retroactively correct, it's one hell of a hard Par 4.

Trey Kemp

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 09:25:33 AM »
Colonial CC in Fort Worth, Texas only has 2 par 5's (the 1st and 11th holes).  Colonial was build in 1936.
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Chris DeNigris

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 09:27:51 AM »
 I bet the list would be rather lengthy if we just re-labeled any 5 of less than 510 yards as a nasty 4.  Oh, is that the point?

Jeff Johnston

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 09:29:18 AM »
The Island has two, one of which (15) is a belter. It also has some v tough long par 4s (7, 12 and particularly the 18th all come to mind).

Will Spivey

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 09:35:18 AM »
Old Town Club, par 70, 2 par 5's (#4 and #17).  Built in 1939.

David_Tepper

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2015, 09:39:15 AM »
Tain (par-70) is another old GB&I course with two par-5's.

Ryan Bass

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 09:59:32 AM »
The Ross Course in French Lick, IN has two par fives - 7 is reachable in two for some.  15 plays to over 620 yards from the tips.  Also has three very long par threes that must have been insanely challenging when the course first opened up until the advent of the ProV1.

Jud_T

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 10:04:45 AM »
Chicago Golf Club has 2, the 4th and 16th.





Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Nigel Islam

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Re: Great Golf Courses with 2 (or less) P5's
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 10:14:59 AM »
Camargo, Crystal Downs and Inverness.