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Kevin Pallier

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Blind P3's
« on: July 22, 2015, 01:06:06 AM »
Which is the best blind P3 in golf ? Why do you like it so much ?

Vote: (Max. 1-2-3)
Prestwick # 5
Lahinch # 5
Cruden Bay #15
Painswick # 5
Painswick # 10

Others ?

These courses are all over 75 - 100+ years old - any decent one's built say in the last 50 years ?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 01:09:56 AM by Kevin Pallier »

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 01:51:32 AM »
Whistling Straits- Irish #13 is blind from most of the upper tee boxes. All you can see is a few dozen bunkers!
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 01:56:16 AM »
I've never played any of the holes on your list, but as for classics on this side of the Atlantic, I'd offer:

The 7th at Eastward Ho:


The Quarry hole at Manufacturers (which is blind from the tee):


And the Redan holes at Old White:


and Piping Rock:



On the modern side, some of my favorites include:

The 5th at French Creek:


The (mostly blind) uphill par-3 at Dormie Club:


And the 6th at Greywalls:

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Sean_A

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 03:15:54 AM »
1. Lahinch Dell - crazy pin ball effect green, for cool way to dogleg left as a par 4 should the wind be harsh


2. Painswick 10 - smallest green on the planet, but a very short shot and rough not to bad


3. Aberdovey Cader - large green with good slopes...can handle windy conditions


Honourable mention Temple 10.


Ciao
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:36:17 AM by Sean_A »
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Michael Goldstein

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 03:20:43 AM »
Some very different definitions of blind coming out...


Of the truly blind holes (i.e., in your list Kevin), I like the Dell hole at Lahinch.


I recently played Shiskine and it has at least 3 truly blind par threes out of 12 holes.   
The short, steeply uphill and completely blind 3rd hole is a classic.


There's a cool one at Aberdovey as well.  It's in a severe bowl green which makes it very easy provided you hit the right club! 
Sean: Tenby Cader? Is this the 12th at Tenby?





 
@Pure_Golf

Brent Hutto

Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 06:38:08 AM »
There is one totally blind Par 3 and another 90% blind one an Aberdovey. Both are great examples although the former must be (as Michael points out) fairly easy as I am lifetime under par there!

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 07:06:01 AM »
Jon, I don't want to be rude and I'm conscious that your photos may not all be taken from the tee. But it's hard to see how a hole can be called blind when there's a flag fluttering there clear as day!
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 07:06:19 AM »
Prestwick 5 is my favorite.  That tee shot looks impossible but is really entirely doable.

Brent Hutto

Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 07:09:15 AM »
Adam has a point. If we're talking about only seeing 3/4 of the flagstick then, depending on the day's hole location, four of the five Par 3's at my home course might be "blind".

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 07:24:01 AM »
Jon, I don't want to be rude and I'm conscious that your photos may not all be taken from the tee. But it's hard to see how a hole can be called blind when there's a flag fluttering there clear as day!

Maybe I'm just short.

Or maybe I'm defining blind differently than most. I read "blind par 3" to mean any par 3 hole on which I can't see the putting surface from the tee.

If you're defining a "blind par 3" as one, like the 13th at Whistling Straits Irish, where the player can't see the green or any part of the flag, then admittedly, my suggestions aren't the least bit blind (except for the Quarry hole at Mannies).
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Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 07:28:31 AM »
I don't see hardly any of the ones mentioned being blind.
5th (Alps) at Prestwick is my favourite of all time - I like the excitement of heading over the hill to find out the results

"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Joe Hellrung

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 07:33:10 AM »
IMO, blind par three's should be illegal (blind meaning that you can't see the green or flag stick - i.e. 13 at Straits Irish).

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2015, 07:42:26 AM »
How about hole 8 at Bandon Preserve?  Depending on where the pin is for the day, it could be completely blocked by the hump on the right.  Plus it's less than 100 yards which makes the fact that it's blind all the more interesting

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2015, 07:59:58 AM »
I like proper blind par threes, of which only very few survive. Yes, they're a bit silly, but they are one of the few remaining links with 'early golf'. It seems on pretty much every pre-1900 links, there was a blind par three, usually straight over the top of the highest dune on the property. They were often the most famous hole on the course, but most have been eliminated -- Majuba at Burnham, Sandy Parlour at Deal, Maiden at Sandwich.


I have a theory about their creation, which I reckon is my only original contribution to golf literature. Clearly hollows in among dunes was a good place to put greens to collect water in those pre-irrigation days -- there's still quite a few about, though the likes of Colt removed loads. But consider. It is 1885, and a bunch of guys are tramping through some dunes with the intention of having their own golf course. They are armed with the equipment of the day -- hickories and gutties -- gear which makes getting the ball airborne difficult. They are guys, and how guys are has not changed. They spot the largest dune on the site. Inevitably, one of them says 'I bet a bottle of claret I can hit my ball over there, and you can't.' And thus, because of testosterone, were created the legendary blind par threes. I'm convinced of it.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2015, 08:20:01 AM »
any decent one's built say in the last 50 years ?

Hole 4 at Sweetens Cove in South Pittsburg, Tennessee. The course opened in 2014.


BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 08:34:08 AM »
Adam -


Your are on to something. More broadly, I think wagering had a big role in the design of early golf courses. (Head to head betting as opposed to a Calcutta format.) It helps explain why so many funky holes were sought out, built and enjoyed.


Bob

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 08:42:01 AM »
Sweetens 4 --- only blind from part of the tee to part of the green, as you well know Eric!
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tim Martin

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 08:55:01 AM »
Atlantic City CC #17

Michael Goldstein

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 02:55:30 PM »
Adam, I like where you're going with this.
After a couple of beers at PBGC we've been known to head out and make up some similarly difficult holes.
@Pure_Golf

Jeff Bergeron

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 03:02:42 PM »
I thought I read recently that Hanse has put a Dell hole on the Olympic course in Rio. If true, that shows me something.

Joe Hellrung

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 03:10:50 PM »

They spot the largest dune on the site. Inevitably, one of them says 'I bet a bottle of claret I can hit my ball over there, and you can't.' And thus, because of testosterone, were created the legendary blind par threes. I'm convinced of it.

This is exactly the mentality that we used when creating Frisbee golf holes on my college campus. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2015, 03:14:59 PM »
Which is the best blind P3 in golf ? Why do you like it so much ?



For me, a great blind hole is one where you are supposed to carry it just over the ridge or dune, and if you do, the target on the other side is quite receptive, so that you can visualize the shot in your mind.  The Lahinch hole is the ultimate example of this, but most of the others you listed are similar. 


The outlier is the 5th at Prestwick, where the target is far on the other side of the ridge, and guarded by bunkers to the sides that you can't really place.  There, you have to trust the marker on the hill ... but it's rare when all the tees line up properly with the marker.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 03:15:59 PM »
Hard to beat Prestwick, but how about the Punchbowl at Westhampton?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 03:23:51 PM »
The flag on the par-3 3rd at Aberdovey, 'Cader', is visible if you stand on the back left side tee.

[size=78%]I would suggest that the tiny green 10th at Painswick is a more challenging hole that the more celebrated 5th.[/size]

[/size][size=78%]I like the 15th at Cruden Bay.[/size]

Atb

Ian Andrew

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Re: Blind P3's
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 03:57:08 PM »
I thought I read recently that Hanse has put a Dell hole on the Olympic course in Rio. If true, that shows me something.


You can see a small section of the green ... just like the Dell Hole
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas