[MCirba]

Perhaps it's just my fading memory over the years but I can't recall anyone in year's prior taking a putter from left of the 17th green and being able to putt anywhere near close to the hole as Jason Day was able to easily accomplish on Monday, and others as well throughout the tournament.   In fact, going left of the road hole bunker to a pin tucked behind it used to be a recipe for precarious recovery at best and disaster at worst.

I recall a big swing of the ground to the left that vanished the chances of many a competitor over the years, and even led to the nickname, "The Sands of Nakajima", memorializing the other "Tommy N", who putted into the bunker and scored a 9, if memory serves.

What changed, or is my perception faulty?

[Brent Hutto]

If it's at all like some of the similar bunkers I putt around at my home course, it is down to execution and a bit of luck. To putt around a bunker like that and not end up 20-30 yards from the hole means risking a huge number with almost no room for error. Jason Day may be the first to a) execute to perfection and b) not catch the wrong random tuft of grass and find the sand anyway.

[Adam Clayman]

The moisture and recent finish work allowed Mr. Day to execute that fine shot.

 I don't recall ever seeing the RH bunker look so smooth in it's contouring. 
 

[Brent Hutto]

If so then those were beneficial changes to the hole IMO. That was a very cool shot, executed almost perfectly.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:


This shot was possible before the renovations, although I'm sure it's been slightly different through different versions.  There was an event a few years ago where someone played an amazing shot around the bunker from much closer range than Jason Day ... almost a semi-circle around the inside edge of the bunker.


Nakajima's putt was not on Day's line, he was actually down on the front of the green, trying to go up over the little shoulder and close to the bunker to get at a hole location pretty far back behind the bunker.  I think he salvaged an 8 on the hole.

[Bill_McBride]

Mike:


This shot was possible before the renovations, although I'm sure it's been slightly different through different versions.  There was an event a few years ago where someone played an amazing shot around the bunker from much closer range than Jason Day ... almost a semi-circle around the inside edge of the bunker.


Nakajima's putt was not on Day's line, he was actually down on the front of the green, trying to go up over the little shoulder and close to the bunker to get at a hole location pretty far back behind the bunker.  I think he salvaged an 8 on the hole.

I played a putt off very firm, tight turf on the last par 3 at Royal Porthcawl around a deep reverted bunker like that.  It was much safer than trying to pitch over the bunker with a low bounce wedge and risk a chunk into the bunker.   Jason Day does have a marvelous touch. 

[Sven Nilsen]

We try to get people to putt from around the bunker to certain pins on Old Mac's version. 


Today was the first day I was able to say "that's what Jason Day would do."


Sven

[David_Tepper]

The interesting thing is, in the 1st round I saw Jason Day save par by hitting a very nice pitch over the little ridge from long & left of the bunker on #17 to about 4-5 feet. He made par both ways during the Open.

[MCirba]

Am I wrong in recollecting that the Road Hole bunker was moved about four feet further from the green and the depth lowered about 18 inches in the last round of changes about 5 years back?  Related, was the Road Hole bunker much of a factor in this year's open either as a potential penalty or an actual place of perdition and punishment?

[Niall C]

Mike


I'm surprised you need to ask that question. Just think of how many players played to the front right of the green rather than going for the pin. As an aside, I think the reason for that can also be attributed to the fact that the players were playing there seconds from a lot further back than they have in previous Opens. I think you can perhaps attribute that to putting the tee back.


Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mike


I'm surprised you need to ask that question. Just think of how many players played to the front right of the green rather than going for the pin. As an aside, I think the reason for that can also be attributed to the fact that the players were playing there seconds from a lot further back than they have in previous Opens. I think you can perhaps attribute that to putting the tee back.


Niall

Wasn't the new tee there in 2010?   The vast majority I watched played to the 2nd fairway to avoid the left rough on 17th. This is thinking from the green back. Once you are NEVER going to attempt to fly the green in 2, lay back to the safest option.

I heard the rough on the left of 17 was kept thinner this year than last time, so either they didn't' get that message or its back to my first point. Therefore the road hole bunker is now too dominant if there's no conditions where you'd ever take it on?

IN the final groups and playoff Monday a couple of guys did hit fades to 17th fairway, but didn't really gain any advantage.

[Niall C]

Tony


Re the guys in the play off, they all hit the 17th fairway which I think did give them the option of playing up the green. It was only Johnston who decided to go for the green (I'm assuming the other two chose to play short).


Niall

[MCirba]

Niall and Tony,

With the new back tee, the shortened rough, and the changes to the Road Hole bunker it seems to me that the hole played very, very differently than in year's past.

I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg but I would note some significant differences;

1) I don't recall anyone ever playing intentionally to the 2nd fairway in prior Opens.

2) I don't recall golfers intentionally playing to miss any of the green on their second.   In prior years it seemed the cautious play was to the front of the green, keeping short of the road.   Someone trying the daring second shot would play up the right on the drive and then try to get a draw going to back hole locations, which made for exhilarating excitement.

3) I don't recall golfers intentionally missing hole high to the left of the green prior as that previously brought the dread of the Road Hole Bunker into play for the 3rd shot.   

I think players laid back not because of the dangers of the RHB  but because of the potential for disaster on the road.   

Instead, it seems they mostly played it as a par five, hoping to get close enough on their pitched third, (or putted as in the case of Jason Day and some others) to get down in one putt.

Would you agree that's very different from what we've seen in previous Opens?   Personally, I want my old exciting Road Hole back!...the one that tempted the aggressive play but required immense precision and perfect execution.

[Michael Tamburrini]

It was playing into the wind most of the time, which may have changed how it played compared to the last few Opens at least.


The band of rough at the back of the green was horrible though.  And a shame - Johnsons fourth shot in the playoff would have been much more interesting had it ran down the slope.


Would 18 be better if the grandstand on the left was out of bounds during the Open?  It seems unfair that it's almost impossible to hit out of bounds left  there because of it and it lets the players challenge the left side without consequence.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:


I don't think the Road Hole was terribly different this Open than it was 20 or 30 years ago.  Players had longer approach shots in part because of the new tee, but also because the wind was in their face instead of helping.  [The prevailing wind at St. Andrews is into your face and quartering from the left on the first few holes, then downwind/off the right coming home, as it blew the first two days of the Open.]  Sunday and Monday were just outliers in terms of the wind.


I do agree with Michael Tamburrini that not mowing the bank down to the road made a difference in play around the green, but I would have thought that would have made the players MORE aggressive with their second shots.

[Thomas Dai]

[size=78%]Re the guys in the play off, they all hit the 17th fairway which I think did give them the option of playing up the green. It was only Johnston who decided to go for the green (I'm assuming the other two chose to play short).[/size]
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[/size]
[/size][size=78%]My recollection is that Louis hit a ripper of a second shot but that it landed into the upslope of the bank at the front of the 17th green and, instead of bouncing up and onto the green, rolled back down the slope pretty close to where Leishman's ball was sitting. A couple of feet further in flight and Louis ball would have probably been well up the length of the green.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Did anyone play long and left on their second shots on the 17th? I recall this being fairly common in the past. Maybe it was this years pin positions, for example, that one on the front that I don't recall being used before, that meant the long and left strategy was inappropriate or was there some other effect such as a revised cut of rough in that area or the positioning of the giant scoreboard between the 17th green and the 2nd fairway? I do recall Notah Begay taking the long and left option once and running into the Swilken Burn![/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Atb[/size]
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[David_Tepper]

Thomas Dai -

See my post above about Jason Day playing long & left in the first round.

It appeared as though the reshaping of the Road Hole bunker also resulted in the creation of a small ridge running along the edge of the green to the left of the bunker. It looked like the ridge made putting from long & left much more difficult than it used to be.

DT

[Adam Lawrence]

Thomas Dai -

See my post above about Jason Day playing long & left in the first round.

It appeared as though the reshaping of the Road Hole bunker also resulted in the creation of a small ridge running along the edge of the green to the left of the bunker. It looked like the ridge made putting from long & left much more difficult than it used to be.

DT

Yes. That was stated, in advance, as one of the objectives. You'll probably recall that, at one point, a bunch of players started deliberately playing towards 18 tee with the goal of leaving an easy chip back. The recent reworking of the Road bunker was designed to make that harder.

[Colin Macqueen]

Thomas,


Running the risk of being flippant.... "..running into the Swilken Burn!


Scots wha hae the language right,
Scots wha oft hae seen the light
Spell The Swilcan as you see
Ne'er with a K and E
As that is heresy!!!!




Ye can always edit the spelling if you're willing to do battle with the stupid format instructions that plague the forum now!!


Orra best Colin

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