Hankley Common - A Missed Opportunity?

[Tom Kelly]

I walked around Hankley Common for the first time last night and I have to say I was left vastly underwhelmed.
Having seen a few photos and then approached the course walking through the common from the south east I had pretty high expectations. What I found was generic lacklustre (though occasionally beautiful) bunkering with plain greens and landing strip fairways. The routing seemed decent and the course did seem to get better towards the finish with 15-18 looking like a very tidy run of holes but I couldn’t help but feeling it could be so much better. I have to admit to not seeing any of 1-3 and I’ve never hit a ball there but the setting alone gives it the potential to be talked about as the best inland course in the country yet it struggles to get anywhere near that conversation. Am I missing something?
Recent visits to New Zealand, Royal Worlington and Walton Heath probably accentuate my feelings as similar relatively flat land has reaped far better golf at all three through a small dose of ingenuity.
If Hankley was in a generic parkland setting without the heather and views would anyone on this board even know it existed?

[Bill_McBride]

I thought Liphook clearly better when we played both during a recent Buda Cup. 

[Mark Pearce]

Tom,


When BUDA visited Hankley a few years ago I came away with a similar impression, having also had high expectations.  T's a decent course, there's no doubting that, but then it should be on that land.  However, as discussed in another current thread, a great course should ask questions without simple answers.  The impression I got of Hankley was that the right shot was pretty clear in every instance.  In particular, I don't recall really having to think much on any of the tees, except perhaps the excellent long par 3 7th(?)


I know it has some big fans on here, so I look forward to their defence.

[Adam Lawrence]

No, they wouldn't. But it's not. Hankley is important because it was the first place to really go hell for leather on heath regeneration, and it shows what's possible if you are committed. I agree it is not a great golf course 'underneath' and those that call it among the best are hugely influenced by the beauty of the setting. But if Sunningdale or Swinley or whatever did the same we wouldn't need to have this debate!

[Tom Kelly]

Though I obviously didn't see the course before, I agree that the heath regeneration is fantastic and it looks stunning but I suppose where I am really going with this is that seeing Hankley made a number of reoccurring questions come into my head;


1 - How many golfers actually identify/engage/understand the architecture of a course?


2 - As the other current thread notes, do views/surrounds actually trump the architecture for the vast majority?


3 - The holy grail of GCA......How can you/we help golfers understand and appreciate the architecture of a course without coming over as a pretentious idiot?! I know I get a greater sense of enjoyment from understanding this part of the game than I did before but will others? Or are we all just abit weird?!


4 - Given its location I assume Braid would have spent a far bit of time at Hankley during his work which leads me to ask was Braid actually any good as an architect?


5 - How much work did Colt do at Hankley? Just the three new hole? Most controversially......Was Colt really as good as he's made out to be?


6 - Restoration vs renovation. I'm not certain how much has changed at Hankley over the years but given the options regardless of budget etc, should a course like Hankley be restored or renovation/re-modeled?


I'd be interested to hear your opinions on any of the questions and I'll try to offer mine when appropriate.

[Brent Hutto]

Tom,


For I'd say about 95% of golfers, there is no weight given to the sort of "identify/engage/understand" that you're looking to inculcate in them. Views are important but the #1 issue is the condition of greens. Normally #2 is the condition of fairway, tees and bunkers but I think spectacular views can probably rise to #2 in a few cases.


It is possible to discuss design and architecture without sounding pretentious but if you want to avoid sounding that way, best not try using the typical flowery, poetical or simply overblown flights of rhetorical fancy you see on this forum. Our usual beard pulling ruminations about What It All Means or How Golf Was Meant To Be will be (correctly IMO) identified as pretentious or at the least affectedly old-fashioned by those 95% of golfers.


I do not think you or they gain anything if you try and "educate" them to treat golf as something beyond "What did you shoot and how were the greens?" level of discourse. It would be like some guy with a degree from Divinity School interrupted a prayer meeting to try and teach someone Ancient Greek.

[Jeff Spittel]

Going out there Saturday while on a quick business trip. Bummer to hear it's disappointing, but hopefully it's at least a pleasant walk on a lovely midsummer evening.

[Josh Stevens]

To be fair to Hankley while they actually own a huge piece of property, something like 800 acres I am told, there is not a lot going on. it is sort of flat and featureless with none of the movement you see closer in at Sunningdale or the Berkshire or Swinley.

IT is closer to Walton Heath in its terrain, but alas not a patch on Walton as a course.  Such a missed opportunity that I would have to think there is something going on that prevents them developing the land.  Is it protected in some way?

[Tom Kelly]

To be fair to Hankley while they actually own a huge piece of property, something like 800 acres I am told, there is not a lot going on. it is sort of flat and featureless with none of the movement you see closer in at Sunningdale or the Berkshire or Swinley.

IT is closer to Walton Heath in its terrain, but alas not a patch on Walton as a course.  Such a missed opportunity that I would have to think there is something going on that prevents them developing the land.  Is it protected in some way?

My guessing that it is probably heavily protected now, or at least the areas outside of the maintained turf but I'm mainly asking why wasn't it better in the first place when other than land ownership issues there were likely very minimal restrictions. They clearly had enough land why not use it better? I'm not even suggesting they should have used different land or the existing land the course is on differently, the routing is fine just the golf course features are pretty bland.


I completely agree with the Walton Heath aspect. Add some solid Walton Heath bunkering and intereting cants and a few ingenious swales and deceptions from a Royal Worlington or New Zealand and Hankley could have been/could be superb.

[Tom Kelly]

Going out there Saturday while on a quick business trip. Bummer to hear it's disappointing, but hopefully it's at least a pleasant walk on a lovely midsummer evening.

Jeff,
Don't worry, it is by no means bad, the heath is stunning and there are some cool holes. More than a pleasant walk. I just feel it could be so much better. It will be interesting to hear how you find it, especially now I've dampened your expectations!


p.s. if you fancy a walk after/before the round the heath over the far side of the course over the ridge-line is pretty amazing too. If you're a film fan you might recognise it from the final scenes of the last Bond film, his ancestral home. There's also some interesting old WWII practices area/ruins, where the Canadian army practiced before D-Day. You might bump into some present day soldiers too like I did!

[Jeff Spittel]

Thanks, Tom. I'm sure it will be enjoyable given the outstanding weather forecast and the lovely setting. Bit of a shame Sunningdale is closed this weekend due to the Senior Open.

[James Boon]

Tom,


I'd say it probably is a missed opportunity.


I played 2 rounds there at Buda, and after the usual beating from Lou Duran in the morning something clicked and I had a really good round in the afternoon, beating Golf's Most Beloved. So I was a little chuffed with myself and couldn't understand why people were being so harsh on the course. However, a couple of days at Liphook and I was only thinking about one course... Liphook.


Hankley has a great setting and isnt a bad course, but a lot of it is somewhat forgettable from an architectural perspective.


Cheers,


James
ps, the closing scenes from Skyfall on Hankley Common? I am surprised by that as the wider shots do certainly look like a Scottish glen, though I suppose they might have shot a lot of the closer up shots with explosions there?

[Tom Kelly]

James,


I think it was just the scenes around the house with the helicopter that were shot there but google it and you'll find lots of photos.


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hankley+common+skyfall&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=965&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIpenUo-3fxgIVxjgUCh2VfwAS

[Tom Kelly]

Is nobody going to take the bait on q's 5 & 6?!;



5 - How much work did Colt do at Hankley? Just the three new hole? Most controversially......Was Colt really as good as he's made out to be?


6 - Restoration vs renovation. I'm not certain how much has changed at Hankley over the years but given the options regardless of budget etc, should a course like Hankley be restored or renovation/re-modeled?

[Jeff Spittel]

So, I played Hankley Saturday night and it certainly felt like a missed opportunity to me. Fantastic setting and some excellent holes (really enjoyed the 6-8 and 14-16 stretches), but I do appreciate the comments that it wasn't as interesting architecturally as it could have been. Also wonder about the routing. Perhaps it wasn't possible, but if 4 went in the other direction it seemed that the course could have taken more advantage of the large hill on which 6 green and 7 are situated. Perhaps that wasn't a possibility given the military range.


On another note, the last few miles of that drive are a bit of an adventure for a Yank with limited experience driving in the UK. Could they have made the road a bit narrower?

[Jon Wiggett]

On another note, the last few miles of that drive are a bit of an adventure for a Yank with limited experience driving in the UK. Could they have made the road a bit narrower?

Try almost any road in Cornwall Jeff.

[Gareth Williams]

Is nobody going to take the bait on q's 5 & 6?!;



5 - How much work did Colt do at Hankley? Just the three new hole? Most controversially......Was Colt really as good as he's made out to be?


6 - Restoration vs renovation. I'm not certain how much has changed at Hankley over the years but given the options regardless of budget etc, should a course like Hankley be restored or renovation/re-modeled?

Bit of a thread revival here.......and apologies I have not posted for so long at GCA too.
As a member of HCGC (4 years now but been playing there for another 7 or so) I thought it might be interesting to share that we (the club) have recently commissioned Martin Ebert of Mackenzie & Ebert Ltd to consult on some course enhancements/renovations that were recently presented to the club members by Martin Ebert himself.
I'll start a new thread for that if it is ok and share with my fellow GCA members the outline of those proposed plans and, of course, would welcome views/feedback.
Thank you.

[Ben Stephens]

Is nobody going to take the bait on q's 5 & 6?!;



5 - How much work did Colt do at Hankley? Just the three new hole? Most controversially......Was Colt really as good as he's made out to be?


6 - Restoration vs renovation. I'm not certain how much has changed at Hankley over the years but given the options regardless of budget etc, should a course like Hankley be restored or renovation/re-modeled?

Bit of a thread revival here.......and apologies I have not posted for so long at GCA too.
As a member of HCGC (4 years now but been playing there for another 7 or so) I thought it might be interesting to share that we (the club) have recently commissioned Martin Ebert of Mackenzie & Ebert Ltd to consult on some course enhancements/renovations that were recently presented to the club members by Martin Ebert himself.
I'll start a new thread for that if it is ok and share with my fellow GCA members the outline of those proposed plans and, of course, would welcome views/feedback.
Thank you.

Welcome back Gareth - of course it is ok to start a new thread regarding the plans for Hankley.


I am sure a number of us are looking forward to seeing what M+E are proposing.

[Gareth Williams]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the reply and good to hear from you too 
I'll be back to post/share that Ebert plan later today....I for one am very excited by it and really hope the club act on the recommendations for the course.

[Robin_Hiseman]

I don't know why, but this thread and the one on Royal Liverpool remind me of the time in the late 80's when nearly every song in the Top 10 was produced by Stock, Aitken and Waterman. It's nagging at me, but I can't quite place my finger on why this should be. Can anyone help me figure it out?

[Ben Stephens]

I don't know why, but this thread and the one on Royal Liverpool remind me of the time in the late 80's when nearly every song in the Top 10 was produced by Stock, Aitken and Waterman. It's nagging at me, but I can't quite place my finger on why this should be. Can anyone help me figure it out?

Robin,




Remember the ring tone on mobiles Crazy Frog it used to drive me mad even that I knew what it was as so many had it for a period of time!


Is Waterman that you are referring to Pete Waterman?




Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the reply and good to hear from you too 
I'll be back to post/share that Ebert plan later today....I for one am very excited by it and really hope the club act on the recommendations for the course.

Hi Gareth,




Good to hear from you as well it has been a while!


Trying to twist my friends arm on what Ebert has proposed for Luffenham Heath.




Cheers
Ben

[Robin_Hiseman]

I don't know why, but this thread and the one on Royal Liverpool remind me of the time in the late 80's when nearly every song in the Top 10 was produced by Stock, Aitken and Waterman. It's nagging at me, but I can't quite place my finger on why this should be. Can anyone help me figure it out?

Robin,




Remember the ring tone on mobiles Crazy Frog it used to drive me mad even that I knew what it was as so many had it for a period of time!


Is Waterman that you are referring to Pete Waterman?




Cheers
Ben

Yes Ben, it is.

[Brian Finn]

Bit of a thread revival here.......and apologies I have not posted for so long at GCA too.
As a member of HCGC (4 years now but been playing there for another 7 or so) I thought it might be interesting to share that we (the club) have recently commissioned Martin Ebert of Mackenzie & Ebert Ltd to consult on some course enhancements/renovations that were recently presented to the club members by Martin Ebert himself.
I'll start a new thread for that if it is ok and share with my fellow GCA members the outline of those proposed plans and, of course, would welcome views/feedback.
Thank you.

I'll be following along with great interest, as I am scheduled to visit Hankley Common next April.  Having read many old threads about it, I'm excited to see it for myself.

[Gareth Williams]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the reply and good to hear from you too 
I'll be back to post/share that Ebert plan later today....I for one am very excited by it and really hope the club act on the recommendations for the course.

Hi Gareth,




Good to hear from you as well it has been a while!


Trying to twist my friends arm on what Ebert has proposed for Luffenham Heath.




Cheers
Ben

Absolutely been a long time!
Recall fondly the day I organised at Swinley Forest some years ago for GCA.
Just about to post the Hankley thread now.....