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Michael Moore

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Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2015, 10:39:51 AM »
"I went to play golf fifteen miles outside of Mullen, Nebraska and found the social aspect lacking."
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2015, 11:52:40 AM »
Several years ago, before DR was even a thought, I was out to SHGC to visit with the Super, Corey.   Whilst riding around the course he mentioned that Tom Watson was recently out with a group of Stanford friends sampling wines between rounds of golf, and maybe it was in advance of "The Open" and was accostomising his game to the ground firmness, wind, and randomness of the terrain. 

We recently heard that prior to the USGA Open, Gary Woodland was out at DR and shot a course record and presumably was using the experience to get used to the similar kind of playing surfaces and conditions that he might find at Chambers Bay.

Obviously, we know that Tom Watson is a cerebral golfer, and has seen it all.  I don't know if TW is a member, or just drops in by invite of Mr. Youngscapp, and if he had made it a regular 'tune-up' venue to prep for 'An Open'.   But it makes perfect sense to me.  Particularly now that the Super of SHGC has worked diligently with Coore and Crenshaw and Mr. Peterson to recapture and respond to the effects of years of erosion that had excessively deepened bunkers and more significantly, reclaim the areas of turf that converted from fescue, to once again present a predominant fescue playing surface. 

Doak DR is also sustaining the effort to fescue.  Thus, we can see the logic (at least logical to me) that either in advance of Chambers, and "an Open", or even to a lesser extent, Whistling Straits, cerebral pros, and professionals who have seen a great deal of the wide world of different golf venues, would seek SHGC, or DR for purposes of either calibrating their game to those condtions in preparation, or just for the joy and exileration of that one gets as the diversity from standard fare, to play the courses out there in the Sand Hills.

So, having taken the long way around the barn,  I'd wonder if some of these professionals, who are apt to seek more than standard preparation and actually enjoy extra rounds golfing fare, seek out DR or SHGC, and if so; have a favorite?   Maybe only the principles and managers of the clubs out there can say.   Or, maybe this professional era of regimented training and scheduling just isn't conducive to pros doing this sort of thing.  I'd include the senior players in my inquiry. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Kelly

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Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2015, 03:04:05 PM »
Sam et al. --


I have driven 600 miles to play Sand Hills.


I have driven 600 miles to play Dismal River Red (along with the underappreciated Dismal River White).


I hope to do so again — and most happily.


Both Sand Hills and Dismal River Red are, for my money, top-notch golf courses -- EQUALLY capable (along with, I presume, some other courses I haven't played) of standing as a "standard of greatness."


What purpose would be served by choosing one of them (or any other course) to be THE standard of greatness? None that I can imagine.


Dan
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Peter Pallotta

Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2015, 05:43:20 PM »
Oh, I get it, I see how it is: our old friend Dan wins a flight at the 5th Major and suddenly there's no talking to him anymore. He holds up a trophy, gets his name in the paper, and now this long time senior board member with some 5000+ posts suddenly can't be bothered to engage in a bit of ranking fun. Too good for such garden-variety past-times, I suppose, given that (as he carefully notes) he's played both both Dismal and Sand Hills. Apparently he can no longer even "imagine" the purpose of a hypothetical greatness scale, presumably because he himself has experienced actual greatness and has no more time for us plebian pretenders. Ah, human nature: how the haves forget so quickly their have-not origin.
 
Peter
(emoticon omitted, though I don't know why I pay Dan the courtesy)

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2015, 05:55:54 PM »
Peter --


Tou·ché!


Everyone knows this already, but I don't think any of us has said it:


You are THE standard of greatness, when it comes to GCA contributors.


The rest of us are plebeian (sp) pretenders.


DK


P.S. Hope to meet you at next year's 5th Major.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Doug Siebert

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Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2015, 06:27:47 PM »
Doug, When did you visit SH?

It was two years ago, with David Davis.

I certainly don't want anyone to think I am at all ungrateful for having the opportunity to play there, and it certainly was a great time, I'm just comparing how the experience differed from DR. I don't have much experience visiting private clubs, but the experience I have had just shows I'm not a private club kind of guy :)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2015, 08:25:51 AM »
Sam,


You are right about people's thoughts concerning the golf holes at DRR.  11, in my opinion, is one of the great par 3s in the world.  Same for 15 being a great 4.  I also think 4, 6, 9, and 14 are as good as it gets.  And, frankly, 1-18 are really good too!


Sand Hills versus Dismal is a fun exercise.  Both are truly great IMO and will come down to personal preference.  Which in the case of Red versus SH, might just be which designer do you prefer; C&C or Doak.  If you haven't been to Dismal, but you've been to some other areas where they've worked together then you could probably make an educated guess.  Do you prefer Pacific Dunes or Bandon Trails?  Do you prefer Streamsong Blue or Red?  Do you like Heidi Klum or Elle MacPherson?


On the club vibe, I actually get what Doug means.  And I hear Keith as well.  In fact, I have a similar type of experience at a private club.  There is a private club that I've played a number of times as a guest...unaccompanied and accompanied.  I have NEVER felt comfortable or welcome.  I love the course, the club's history is world-class, and the facilities are amazing...but I just don't fit in...that's the bottom line.  I am always very appreciative to be there and would never turn down an invite, but I just feel like I'm walking on egg shells and always being made to feel like an outsider (which I am at this place).  So, I get what you guys are saying.


Back to golf in the sandhills of Nebraska...those of you who know me, know that me playing there 5/6 years ago, literally, changed my life.  I think it is the best golfing environment in the world.  I make the time to get out that way a few times every year.  So, whether you choose Sand Hills or Dismal as your more favorite club...its a win-win in my book.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2015, 09:18:22 AM »
Mac:


I couldn't have said it better.  My trip to the Sandhills was one of the best of my life.  All of the golf out there is great - just a matter of personal preference.  In fact, Dismal White (not mentioned in this thread) may have some of the most exciting shots that I have ever played. 


However, to only discuss golf is IMHO to lose perspective of the real joy of a trip to the Sandhills.  There is a simpleness and peacefulness about the area that grounds you.  It reminds you how simple life can be at its core if you don't let everything else distract you.  There may not be a better place in the US to remove yourself from life's stresses.   


Both Sand Hills and Dismal River deliver this feeling.  Both are great experiences.
 


 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2015, 10:33:30 AM »


Do you like Heidi Klum or Elle MacPherson?



I wasn't aware that one of these was a Doak and the other a C&C  :)
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2015, 11:00:13 AM »
For the record Mac, I will take Heidi Klum and Elle MacPherson ahead of Dismal Doak and Sand Hills!
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Sam Morrow

Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2015, 11:03:40 AM »
Isn't Elle an Aussie? That means she has access.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2015, 11:44:03 AM »
We are all just a bunch of 'urban cowboys'... ::) ;) ;D

Next year, bring a film crew to 5th Major for a sequel to "City Slickers" ad we can all contemplate that there is 'just one thing'!

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2015, 12:00:38 PM »
One of my personal highlights this year was watching the surge of humanity leaving the bar to take pictures of a rainbow.  A true symbol of our brotherhood.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2015, 12:11:09 PM »
Oh now you know a smart ass like me is going to link this!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99E9fDgZZuE
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 02:52:59 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2015, 12:19:14 PM »
[Oh, screw it! Take the http:// out of Dick's url, and copy/paste it.]
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 12:25:12 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2015, 12:35:01 PM »
Mac:

  There is a simpleness and peacefulness about the area that grounds you.  It reminds you how simple life can be at its core if you don't let everything else distract you.  There may not be a better place in the US to remove yourself from life's stresses.   


Late evening on my front porch swing with one hand on Mr. Smee's (our dog) neck and the other holding an iced jack-knife.  The price is right and we usually count more pick-ups than luxury sedans passing by.  You are all welcome any time.
 
Cool aid is powerful.
 
Bogey
 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness? New
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2015, 12:38:20 PM »
Double rainbow and double headed golfer (complements of the iPhone pano feature). 


« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:22:05 AM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Brent Hutto

Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2015, 01:04:03 PM »
Mac:

  There is a simpleness and peacefulness about the area that grounds you.  It reminds you how simple life can be at its core if you don't let everything else distract you.  There may not be a better place in the US to remove yourself from life's stresses.   


Late evening on my front porch swing with one hand on Mr. Smee's (our dog) neck and the other holding an iced jack-knife.  The price is right and we usually count more pick-ups than luxury sedans passing by.  You are all welcome any time.
 
Cool aid is powerful.
 
Bogey


I do agree with Bogey that taking a break from life's stresses is as much about making the choice to do so as it is about finding the right place. But the right place can make it easier to make the choice, for sure.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2015, 03:08:56 PM »
As Mr. Keiser taught me to say, re: comparisons between Pacific Dunes and Pebble Beach, it is an honor just to be in the same conversation as Sand Hills as to which is the better course OR the better experience.


Sand Hills (as with Pebble Beach) has the advantage of being the defending champion, and as with heavyweight fights, you can't take the belt away unless you knock out the holder.  That's hard to do when Sand Hills is a 10 in my book, and there is no 11.  [Pebble is only a 9, so I feel I have a better chance of winning the Pebble vs. Pacific bout, at least in some people's minds.  For others, Pebble is their all-time favorite, and there is no chance of competing.]


I am one of those that does not quite understand Pebble as a nine ? so in my opinion Old Mac, Barnboggle Dunes, and several others should displace Pebble in the top twenty never mind the top ten.
From what I am reading here one can also place Dismal Doak on that list.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2015, 04:30:26 PM »
Dan,


Thanks for the outstanding interpretation of our rainbow event.  If I should ever choose to stop drinking all I will need to do is look back at that picture and think of all the other rainbows I must have missed.  From where I was firmly planted at the bar, half a rainbow and a cold beer.  Never again.


Anyone else care to share their pics?

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2015, 04:50:02 PM »
I just wonder how you guys think DR Doak stacks up against Ballyneal.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2015, 04:54:14 PM »
Anyone else care to share their pics?


John --


My camera was in the cabin. My phone was out of juice. Here's what sapped the last of it: the approaching storm that produced that amazing rainbow (even more brilliant than Dan Moore's camera could capture):


"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2015, 05:26:47 PM »
All - SHGC has well earned their great reputation.  It is a very special place with an outstanding course.  Great people there too.


A few reminders...


Dismal River wouldn't be here without Sand Hills.


Dismal River wouldn't be flourishing today without Sand Hills.


Tom's wonderful course (and Jack's) wouldn't be here without Sand Hills.


We count the folks at Sand Hills among dear friends.  While we do things a bit differently, we walk the same familiar path. 


Comparing two very special places really is like comparing your children. 


At Dismal River, we really do go "all in" to treat everyone who arrives as a personal guest.  Like that, or not, we simply don't know any other way. 


We are proud of what we have, and are proud to be among a bunch of great places out this way.  Otherworldly golf and even more special experiences taken home.


Really enjoying the pics, especially the rainbow.  Good stuff.




Brandon Urban

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2015, 06:16:38 PM »
You guys know what's better than a picture of a rainbow???


A picture of guys taking pictures of a rainbow.

181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Dismal Doak, The New Standard of Greatness?
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2015, 06:20:57 PM »
I just wonder how you guys think DR Doak stacks up against Ballyneal.


Jerry:


Ballyneal and Dismal River (Red) are just as different from one another as either is from Sand Hills, and in all cases that was on purpose, as I had the advantage [or disadvantage] of following up Sand Hills and then Ballyneal by several years.  Mr. Youngscap was a mentor of mine, and Ballyneal was a client, so I didn't want either to think that I was copying ideas at Dismal.


Ballyneal is known for its severe greens, so I wanted Dismal to have gentler greens.  Your feeling as to which is better will probably hinge on your preference in that area.  Or on which club you happen to know members of.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 07:47:39 PM by Tom_Doak »

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