Lancaster CC: Excellent USGA Article, and Pictures, Ahead of U.S. Women's Open

[Carl Rogers]

Has Mr. Forse or others cataloged the remodeling-re-work done in 2007?  Was it in 2007?
From the pics, it seems the USGA has gone back to its ribbon closely mowed and rough set-up.

[Rory Connaughton]

Carl

Green speeds are slow. Avg. under 11 today. Players are not committing to the slopes And missing low.

The fairways haven't been touched. For a parkland course the fairways are as wide as any I have ever seen. 18 is just under 60 yards.

Good weather for the rest of the week. Course is drying rapidly. Fairway cants are becoming relevant, thankfully.

Great GCA turnout today. Joe B, Kris, Mike T, Jim Nagle all on site.

[Joe Bausch]

I'll be walking with another group tomorrow, probably around 11 am start time.


What I take away from walking with two groups now:  some very defensive putting.  The greens are quick, but not unreasonable, IMO.


And I hope to see some tee locations changed.  The second hole was again played from the back tee.  I don't think many of the players are capable are getting way past the top of the rise.  And, IMHO, that hole would have a much greater variance in scores playing a tee much further up.  Then the severe cant of the FW is more accessible, as well as the bunkers left.

[Kris Shreiner]

A super day at LCC today!
Weather was warm, but a slight breeze made it tolerable.
While the course presentation certainly had some starch in it, you could post a  lower number if you were clicking.
Fairways were starting to have some serious release and as Rory noted , poor angles taken, or sloppy ball flight , was punished by the abundant fairway canting that factors frequently at LCC.
I'd like to see them push the edge tomorrow... these girls
need to see a stern examination and I hope they get it!
Some other observations worthy of mention. VERY impressive numbers turnout wise for this major. Scads of kids ... everywhere! It was great to see, and kudos to the Philly press corps , the gang at GAP( Golf Association of Philadelphia) and the USGA for REALLY promoting that segment this week and getting those parents to come out with their youngsters and get them  on-course..AWESOME job!!!!!
There were very few of the over served amongst the patrons. A few corporate juice hounds to be sure, but nothing like the men at Merion drew.
Not that it was unexpected; for me the women 's open is a FAR superior fan experience in general to the men's offering. A comparison intimacy-wise similar to the VERY interactive and approachable presentation of the Walker Cup vs. the circus that is the Ryder Cup.
Each have their merits, but for me the less super-charged version of both is more enjoyable for most fans.
Hope Sunday delivers a riveting finale to a week that Rory, the LCC membership and the entire Lancaster-eastern PA community should toast with pride!
 
Cheers,
Kris 

[John Kavanaugh]

Is Mike Davis on site?  I haven't watched it all but he seems to be out of play. Is there a single sub 300 yd par 4 in play?

[Joe Bausch]

Is Mike Davis on site?  I haven't watched it all but he seems to be out of play. Is there a single sub 300 yd par 4 in play?

At media day on June 1 the talk was the the 16th could have the tee moved all the way up and play way less than 300 yards.  That has yet to happen.  And I sort of hope it doesn't happen tomorrow.  I like the hole just the way it has been playing.

[Kerry Gray]

I am really enjoying watching the Women's Open at Lancaster. Great course. I am particularly fascinated with how similar #12 is to the 12th at Augusta. I know it might be hard to figure out exactly when Flynn finished this hole (he tinkered with the design for years) but do we know if Flynn saw Augusta or Mackenzie visited Lancaster?

[Joe Bausch]

Just finished walking the course with Webb and NY Choi.

Tee on 16 way up so playing about 245 yards. Pin is front right. I'm thinking most players will pull driver or longer hitters three wood and take their chances.

Webb hit driver pin high in the right bunker, and after a tough bunker shot took her way past the hole, she promptly made the 30 footer.

[Dan Herrmann]

The fan support has been amazing.   Laura and I were out on Friday afternoon (after a round at FC!) and LCC was packed.   In fact, it took me 15 minutes to find a parking space at Park City, but he bus system worked great.

Walking the course from outside the ropes was a lot more work than up the centerline.   And the Flynn shined through with shining colors.

There were fans from all over.  I spoke with one who drove down from Boston, who was having a great time.   And the fans treated all players with respect. 

One simple moment brought home the international nature of the event.  We watched Oyama,  Japanese player, respectfully give a bow to the patrons after she was introduced.  A really neat simple moment that demonstrated the bidirectional respect between the players and the patrons.

Only downsides were lack of clothing that Laura liked in the merchandise tent, and the "2 hot dogs and 2 Gatorades" deal for only $19.  I'd love to see the USGA's take from this week!

[Ed Brzezowski]

Worked as a starter on Wednesday, every Asian player I met was beyond nice. You are right about the selection in the merchandise tent, very disappointing.


The course however presented very well. All in all a nice experience.

[David_Tepper]

"At media day on June 1 the talk was the the 16th could have the tee moved all the way up and play way less than 300 yards.  That has yet to happen.  And I sort of hope it doesn't happen tomorrow.  I like the hole just the way it has been playing."

Well, it happened today and Michelle Wie rattled the flagstick with her tee shot. Awesome!

[Terry Lavin]

Congrats to Rory Connaughton and everybody at Lancaster. It was a great host for a great championship. And they set the all-time attendance record!  How good is that!

[Joe Bausch]

Congrats to Rory Connaughton and everybody at Lancaster. It was a great host for a great championship. And they set the all-time attendance record!  How good is that!

I'll second this comment!

[Ed Brzezowski]

Great club, great membership, well done guys.

[Rory Connaughton]

Gentlemen

Thanks for your kind remarks. It was a great week and an incredible finish. the spectators and players really embraced one another and the vibe was great from day 1.

I was fortunate to sit in on the course set up meetings during the week. What am education!

In response to the question on 12  it is part of the original Flynn  routing from 1919.

Looking forward to playing some more golf now that it's over!

[John Kavanaugh]

Is there any reasoning why this years Women's Open was not discussed as fervently as the Men's? 

[Brent Hutto]

Is there any reasoning why this years Women's Open was not discussed as fervently as the Men's?

 Nobody could possibly be surprised that there's more interest in  seeing the best players in the game then there is for minor-league versions.

 As for the golf courses there is more interest in an oddball manufactured faux links with fescue grass that is brown from wall to wall than in an excellent example of a type of coarse we are all perfectly familiar with in Lancaster CC.  Lush green hilly Parkland courses  can really only differ in quality there is no novelty to them  and this forum is all about novelty  isn't it ?

[MCirba]

Is there any reasoning why this years Women's Open was not discussed as fervently as the Men's?

John,

I'm sure I wouldn't fault the golf course for this.   There simply isn't much controversial in either the design of Lancaster or the setup to discuss, and it's one of the most architecturally solid courses I've ever played, and my personal favorite of Flynn's.   

That being said, if Michelle Wie had been in stronger contention, or one of the younger bevy of beauties that the Women's tour seems to specialize in these days, I'm quite sure discussion here would have percolated.   As it was, even with a deserving winner and some exciting golf played between the three top contestants, none of them had the personality factor that would drive either television viewership or detailed discussion.

[Brent Hutto]

Having a "name player" and a "veteran player" gag away the lead in a US Women's Open, resulting in a win by whichever unknown Korean player happens to play the round of her life is becoming an old story in women's golf.


Now maybe In Gee Chun will go on to be the next Inbee Park and will win everything in sight over the next few years. Equally likely she's just another Birdie Kim.


The names change but seeing well-known and/or highly ranked players come a cropper on USWO Sunday seems to stay the same. Not every year but it sure happens a lot.


ObUSWO: How about that 3-wood that Michelle Wie hit practically one-legged on the 16th hole Sunday, was that amazing or what?

[John Kavanaugh]

The 16th hole may of been a low point of the Mike Davis experiment.  Thank God it didn't play a role in the outcome of the tournament.  Really, a drivable par 4 so short that many of the women don't hit driver.  A perfectly horrible optionless hole. 

[Rory Connaughton]

John,


  Curious about your observation on 16 and comment re Mike Davis. Please elaborate?

[John Kavanaugh]

Rory,


I thought the hole played too short for a par 4.  It felt like Mike Davis has created a brand and won't let it go no matter if it fits or not.  If he had let the architecture of LCC stand on its own that would have been quite a testament to the course.


One of my favorite features on the courses I have visited were the plaques at Bellerive indicating where Gary Player teed off from during the US Open.  It was a treat to play the course from these locations.  When I recently visited Pinehurst it was impossible to play from the Open tees without disrupting everyone else on the course.  You push the group on the green to finish while you hold up the group behind as you wait for the green to clear.  Do you see the members of LCC playing the Mike Davis 16th or the Flynn 16th?


This is oddly the second Open in a row where through slight of hand we have two par 3's in the last three holes.  That's a different kind a championship golf.  I simply don't like it.  (He moved the tees up on the 16th at Chambers also taking driver out of the hands of the strongest golfers.)


Can you imagine the ensuing disaster for your club if Wei's shot had gone in?

[Rory Connaughton]

John


  I think your observation is fair.  I'm not sure how I feel about the par 4 that is so easily attacked (here and Chambers). There is no question that the character of the hole was altered to allow for it and an ace would have been historic . . . for better or worse! I think it might have still been driveable by the longer hitters if it had only been moved up to the forward tee and not the tee that was used. In the end, the spectators on site seemed to enjoy the spectacle of the hole on Sunday whether or not it was the right way to set the hole up.


Wie's more impressive shot yesterday was on the par 3 eighth when her tee shot bounced into a specator's satchel underneath a chair . . .


  Although the course was set at about the same yardage played by the members, the long holes 9, 10 and 18 in particular were played shorter and the short par fours on the front a tad longer than we play them.  9 inches of rain in the 30 days leading to the tournament certainly presented the architecture from having a chance to really shine but the canted fairway on 15 was running fast enough on Sunday that the failure to manage the tee shot by Lewis ended the tournament for her. 


As for that forward tee . . . I don't anticipate that the rank and file will be playing it.

[Benjamin Litman]

I thought the tournament was very enjoyable to watch on TV--and I imagine even better in person. The course seemed at once tough, fair, and charming.


My only criticism was Greg Norman's comment after the tournament about how he was blown away by the professionalism and ball-striking of the women. One would think that, of all people, a golf insider/lifer would already know that the women professionals are just that--not some amateurs who happened to pick up the game last week. I'm still waiting for Norman to say something interesting.


Bravo to Rory and everyone involved on a superb event, one that broke the mark for attendance at a U.S. Women's Open.

[John Kavanaugh]

I was very impressed by the lack of sexist comments made by Norman.  How he didn't manage to hit some of the softballs lobed his way had to be due to impressive training or a carefully controlled delay button in the booth.  Or maybe he is an amazing business man who really does believe women are equal citizens and athletes.


Norman being impressed with your ball striking is different than Gary McCord thinking you have a nice swing.  The only advice I would give Fox is to drop the Norman clothing endorsement.  I thought the suits looked cheap. 


Come on, we all know Fox is killing it.