As a test of tour pro golf Is TOC still up to holding The Open?

[Thomas Dai]

I guess the title sums up the issue.


Winning scores of -19 in 2000, -14 in 2005 and -16 in 2010.


As a test of tour pro golf is TOC still up to holding The Open?


Curious to know what contributors reckon.


atb

[Niall C]

ATB

If you judge it on the basis of how scores hold up in relation to par then you might conclude that it doesn’t. Of course if you brought in Mike Davis to run the event and he deemed the 9^th and 18^th par 3’s then that might sort that issue out.

Personally I don’t know that should be the defining test indeed I’m not sure what any defining test should be for these guys. I do like to see them have to cope with a variety of situations and in that regard I suspect TOC is as good I not better than a lot of the other Open venues.

Niall 

[jeffwarne]

ATB

If you judge it on the basis of how scores hold up in relation to par then you might conclude that it doesn’t. Of course if you brought in Mike Davis to run the event and he deemed the 9^th and 18^th par 3’s then that might sort that issue out.


Niall

-13 was the winning score the US Open on that basis, and it could be argued that with 6 par 4's over 500 yards it was -37


St. Andrews is a great test and has confirmed the greatest champions of every era repeatedly

[Phil Young]

Why should anyone care? Its the Old Course and that alone deems it worthy of hosting any Open championship the R&A wants to hold there...

[Ryan Coles]

As a test of golf? certainly. The lowest score will win.......


Hosting a major championship? From a spectators point of view, they're aren't many worse.

[Steve Lang]

   probably, I agree with Ryan... the lowest score will win, no coronations play and see what happens opinion


just keep it left and stay away from anything with a name..

[David_Tepper]

Will this be the year someone makes an ace on #18?

[Bill_McBride]

Will this be the year someone makes an ace on #18?

As always some negatives about the Old Course hosting the Open. Have any of the naysayers actually attended an Open there?   I did in 2005 and had one of my best golf experiences ever.  Unlike Chambers Bay you can follow a group although it's tricky, but there are lots of cool vantage points.  The stands are great, most allow observation of play on two greens at once.   The crowds are big but many never leave the beer tents with big tv's. The course is a mine field of danger and the huge greens require great putting.    Who cares what the final score is?   It's all about the weather and "caning the loop," as it's been for decades.   Set the DVR or get up at 4 am, enjoy.  It's a historical event every time.   


And just being in St Andrews is a special time and place even where you're not at the course. 

[Carl Rogers]

Isn't the scoring at TOC a function of the weather & wind?

[Mike Schott]

Isn't the scoring at TOC a function of the weather & wind?

I would love to see windy, rainy conditions at The Open.

[Tom_Doak]

Well, now that they've put those green side bunkers in on #2, it should be all right.   


To me, The Old Course IS golf, plain and simple.  Winning score matters not one bit; anyone who wins at St. Andrews has proven they can play the game.


That's why I was dismayed at the idea of architectural changes to it.

[Carl Rogers]

Isn't the scoring at TOC a function of the weather & wind?

I would love to see windy, rainy conditions at The Open.

At the last Open at the TOC, wasn't play stopped due to wind and the ball would stay at rest on some of the high slopes on some the greens?

[Adam Lawrence]

I don't really understand how one's score against an artificial construct like par can be considered as a test of the difficulty or challenge of the golf course. If Mr Dawson woke up on Monday of Open week and decided the Old Course should play par 68, would it suddenly become harder? Even though _every single hole_ was utterly unchanged, except for this little number printed on the scorecard?

[David_Tepper]

The big questions is - will Tom Watson make the cut in his final Open?

[James Brown]

I don't really understand how one's score against an artificial construct like par can be considered as a test of the difficulty or challenge of the golf course. If Mr Dawson woke up on Monday of Open week and decided the Old Course should play par 68, would it suddenly become harder? Even though _every single hole_ was utterly unchanged, except for this little number printed on the scorecard?

Agree 100%.  Changing the par on a hole is something I always thought was designed to pysche out the mentally weaker players.  You are still trying to get the ball in the hole into the hole in the fewest strokes.  A 500 yard hole is a 500 yard hole. 


The TOC is still the ultimate test of turning 3 into 2.  The winners have exhibited the same characteristics for 150 years.  Smart play, avoiding the harshest hazards.  Getting down in two with the putter from long range.  As long as that stays the same, it is relevant.  It's also one of the few championship courses that doesn't rely on rough. 

[Pete Lavallee]

The big question is will someone, because of benign conditions, shoot the first 62 in a Major or even worse card a 59! Although I wouldn't mind someone breaking the historic 63 barrier for the first time in a Major, I fear a 59 would send the R&A straight to the bulldozers!

[Bill Crane]

My son and I were in St Andrews June 11th through the 14th, and the town was buzzing with talk that Tom Watson was there. 
We didn't see him, but we did see Nick Faldo on the 9th while we were playing the New.  He was waiting on the tee like everyone else for the sloppy, slow Americans to move along.   We watched one guy hit O B left on the 1st tee, his worm burning ball attacking cars on the road.
We walked the entire Old Course on Sunday the 14th - as per Tom Doaks suggestion.  Man - there are a lot of dogs in that town, and they love running on the Old on Sunday.
Also went down and played G H Elie on Saturday and it is a charmer.  Beautiful setting playing down to the Firth of Forth with the escarpment on the right.   Fun to see pictures of Bill Campbell in the clubhouse - I had caddied for him in my teens and he was a member of Elie.
 
Wm Flynnfan

[Rich Goodale]

Will this be the year someone makes an ace on #18?

CB Macdonald made an ace on the 18th, but not in the Open, and not to the current green......

[Tim Pitner]

Thomas,
This doesn't answer your question exactly, but I have to say that, especially in benign weather, I don't enjoy watching the Open at St. Andrews as much as at some other venues (e.g., Muirfield, RSG, even Lytham) because there are so many short par 4s, the trouble doesn't seem to come into play very often, and one's iron play isn't tested to the degree it is elsewhere.  I prefer watching the Dunhill event played at St. Andrews in the fall when it tends to be cold and the course plays more difficultly.

[Tim Fenchel]

Agree with the general sentiment here. Par is meaningless

If I'm not mistaken they went to a four round championship late in the 19th century.  Scores took a jump around the time of Hagen and Jones. Bobby Jones shot 285 (-7) in 1927. John Daly 286 (-6) in 1995 and Oosty 272 (-16) in 2010


Go play. See who takes the fewest cracks and enjoy watching how different minds approach the game and the course.

[Jim Nugent]

This is an old theme.  It goes back at least to the early 1930s, when Tillie made the exact same point.  He said one reason US golfers beat up on British golfers so bad back t hen was that UK courses were too easy.  He especially highlighted TOC as a course that while great for golfers in general, no longer stood up as a test of tournament golf. 

[Carl Johnson]

Absolutely.  The best player for the four rounds will win, be he a PGA Tour Pro, a Euro Tour guy, on maybe an am!  Low score wins.  Beating the false god of par is irrelevant.  Beating everyone else is.   Tons of bunkers all over the place, can't see where you're going, firm and fast, huge greens -- super cool test for any golfer.

[Marty Bonnar]

This years Open will be played on not one, but three golf courses. How exciting that must be for the competitors.

F.

[Paul Gray]

#17 is weak. They need to put a huge pond in front of the green to improve it. Come to think of it, that little stream in front of #1 green is nowhere near opulent enough for a course holding a major. That needs to be expanded. Actually, the whole ground where #1 and #18 are just looks like a big open field on TV. They should grow up the rough between the two holes or, better still, plant a few hundred deciduous trees. 

[Ronald Montesano]

From my perspective, yes. The new rooftop tees on Hamilton Grand (First Hole) Leuchars Air Force Base (Twelfth) and Old Course Hotel (Seventeenth) will add drama to the proceedings and meat to the golf course.