Unusual hole locations on Redans

[Patrick_Mucci]

Recently, this hole played with the hole cut about as far left as you can see in this photo, just about where the rough grass in the bunker face meets the putting surface.
 
I'm told that the hole was located in that position during one round of the Walker Cup and that no one parred the hole.
 
The carry from the Green tee to the hole was about 190, the carry to the front of the green about 165.
 
I hit a decent shot to the middle of the green about 30 feet from the hole.
 
For the record, my putt had about a four foot break, LEFT to RIGHT.
 
Anyone care to guess my score ?

[Chuck Glowacki]

6

[Jim Nugent]

2

[Keith OHalloran]

I am going to guess 2, but my real question is, How does this thread relate to Chambers Bay? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chuck,


You may have had inside information.

6 it was,

My first putt of about 30 feet was a LEFT to RIGHT putt with about 4 feet of break.

I pulled it slightly and hit it too hard.

I watched it trickle off the green, down the slope between the rough and the bunker, all the way thru the tightly mown grass and into the rough at the bottom of the slope.

A recovering L-Wedge just made it to the fringe where it began it's journey back down the the slope again.

Another L-Wedge made it to the putting surface leaving me a 15 foot uphill putt.

Two putts and I was in for 6.

My opponent, watching all of this, was terrified and afraid to putt anywhere near the hole.

The other competitors on the tee were equally horrified and terrified

My opponent, with a putt of about 28 feet from the same basic angle, left his
First putt 12 feet short and right of the hole he then left his next putt 2 feet short of the hole, which I conceded.

Any guesses as to how I played the hole in the afternoon ?

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[Chuck Glowacki]

long and right, leaving uphill putt or chip.  No inside info on our six, figured you putted off
the green, maybe into front bunker.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chuck,
 
I thought about it, but, I was hitting the ball pretty well and the match was all even after I 3 putted # 3 for a bogey, so it was deja vu all over again for me.
 
I hit the green, but was a little further from the hole and left of center.
 
That left me with a big breaking (LEFT to RIGHT) downhill putt.
 
The frightening thing was, to get my approach putt to the hole, I had to skirt the left edge of the green, and if I pulled the putt slightly left, I'd putt into the huge left bunker.  So, I played too conservatively knocked the first putt long and right, tried to jam the next putt in the hole, which it hit, then missed the 4 footer coming back for a double.  A four putt.
 
The next time I play that hole with that hole location, I'm going long, left or right.
 
It has to be one of the greatest hole locations I've ever encountered.
 
I'm told that not one Walker Cup competitor parred the hole when the pin was cut where it was on Sunday.
 
Quite simply, there's no place like NGLA

[Benjamin Litman]

Just happened upon this article by Macdonald himself on the NGLA Redan and Redans generally: http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1914/gi4h.pdf

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben,
 
It's interesting that he mentions the "principle" of the Redan, expanding the design concept well beyond replication.

[Jon Cavalier]

Pat:

That is a terrific and terrifying pin position. And having been at the bottom of that slope myself, albeit to the relatively easier pin position you see in the photo (I'm glad that shot is getting some good mileage here - it's one of my favorites from that day), I can only imagine the difficulty in hitting from there to an extreme left pin.

Tillie's redan at Somerset has a similarly excellent and nearly as terrifying option for an extreme left pin, although the hole lacks the elevated green (and the resulting extra excitement/tension) that NGLA's has.

Quite simply, there's no place like NGLA

Truth.

[Alex Miller]

Pat, my one and only play of the Redan at NGLA had the same pin you described. This was a month before the Walker Cup and they were testing pins. Made a 4 from short right in the fairway, but it was nerve-racking!

[William_G]

I am going to guess 2, but my real question is, How does this thread relate to Chambers Bay? 

LOL

[Patrick_Mucci]

Alex,


Due to the total visibility of the flag stick, it was almost as if the architect/hole was daring you to take an aggressive line.


I retrospect I should have taken the aggressive line.


I'm told that none of the Walker Cup players parred the hole with that location.


Two putting is almost impossible unless you're past the hole, and that's hard to do.


I can't recall ever seeing the hole location anywhere near that location

[Will Lozier]

Patrick,


What was the wind doing, what club did you hit, and what shape shot did decide to hit? each time? next time?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wind was in our face the first time slightly with the second time

A hybrid with with a slight cut the first time a choked down 4-iron straight the second time.


Don't know about the next time, it will depend upon how I feel about how I'm playing