2015 US Open ... the verdict? the judgement of history will be?

[jeffwarne]

Verdict?
The course was quite interesting and dramatic
the fairways wide, firm, and fast
Dramatic finish


"Mike" (like Madonna or Prince) is too involved in architecture/setup.
I will say I was on this as early as Torrey Pines when he took a mediocre hole, placed the tee on the ladies tee and was hailed as a genius.He was passionately haled as a genius then and this seems to have fed on itself.
I say it every year-pick a great site and play it-as is, not after killing the turf and then modifying the yardage to make it more "playable"


Certainly an interesting event-but did the course or the event really need an individual to add more to an already highly stimulating environment?
Overall I think a success, but in spite of ,not because of the setup.


Even the mainstream press is on him now.


Super USGA rant
Sure can't wait till we get that evil anchoring Langer out of the game in 2016.
We'll just ignore ball and driver technology and keep building 7900 yard unwalkable beasts, but at least they'll putt "traditionally" for the 540 yard par 4's (when they're not playing from the ladies tees)

[John_Cullum]

A bunch of pissed off guys who had a free Taylor driver snatched from their hands will never forget this one

[Adam Clayman]

Hopefully the last time Golf Digest rolls out Dan Jenkins to be an unfunny curmudgeon. I certainly appreciate snark and sarcasm, but Mr. Jenkins is past his expiration date in this context.

Golf Digest is on record as being against this type of more sophisticated golf.

Thankfully the usga has realized the error of their pedestrian ways. i.e. Accentuating core principles which Identifies the best golfer. He/She needs to have it all. Not just the ball striking, but the awareness to adapt to changing conditions and emotionally handle whatever karma throws at them.

Jenkins was undoubtedly watching the TV.

[Bill Brightly]

I don't think there is a single shred of evidence that the course has anything to do with providing an exciting tournament.  I think events just randomly come together to make for an exciting tournament.  Torrey Pines provided one of the most exciting US Opens in history as did Medinah in 1990.

David,

While I agree that to a large extent events have to happen randomly to have an exciting finish, the course can definitely add to the drama. Just look at Hole 18 at C.B. (as a par 5. )

Any par 5 is a birdie opportunity for the pros but how they play that one certainly added to the drama. Speith hit a very good drive to a spot where he could reach with 3 wood. DJ took a much more aggressive line, landed his ball on a VERY narrow strip of fairway, and was rewarded by only having a 5 iron left. From that point the severity of the green contours still played a huge factor in the outcome. Speith correctly kept his ball right of the pin and was rewarded with an uphill putt. DJ did not, hit it a touch too long (or too short,) and was left with a tricky downhill eagle putt.

I'll submit all of that as evidence that the course played a big role in what we saw on Sunday.

[Phil McDade]

Bill:


As it can in a boring, pedestrian way -- remember Lucas Glover, protecting a lead, played a 6-iron off the tee at the most recent US Open at BBlack at that course's awful finishing hole.

[Jim Hoak]

I know that being tough and judgmental is a hallmark of this site, but I think people are being a bit over-critical.
The USGA tried to do something different--in a new part of the country.  I believe they are to be commended for venturing out from the norm.  And they showcased the most important issue to the game of golf--the sustainability of golf courses in a time of water shortages that will persist.  They know that golf must be more eco-friendly to survive.  So, give them a break for trying something innovative.
And while I'm at it--I was skeptical that Fox would do a good job on the telecast.  But, while not perfect, it exceeded my expectations.

[Jud_T]

It will go down in history when Spieth wins the Grand Slam.  It will end up in Digest's Top 10.  The USGA will "Spieth-proof" the course before the next Open.  Every club will introduce Poa into their greens.  Corey Pavin will announce Spieth's entry to the Hall of Fame in the same monotone that defies the mathematics of random variation.  Dustin Johnson will be the answer to the trivia question "Who hit a 380 yard drive, then went on to 3-jack from 12 feet to gag the Open that lead to Spieth's Grand Slam"?.  8,000 yard F&F Championship tracks that are walking only but a very tough walk will be all the rage on this side of the pond.  Nicklaus & Fazio will only design Faux Links, or at least their underlings will.  Tom Doak will be asked "Why don't you design more Tournament courses" so often that he will have to get carried out of an interview with Matty G in a straightjacket.  John Kavanaugh will do a Chamber Bay vs. Dismal White Match Play thread each year on the anniversary of Spieth's win, one hole/year.  BCowan will start a Kickstarter fund to introduce pullcarts at Chambers Bay & Whistling Straits.  Sven Nilsen will leave Bandon to caddie at Chambers cause the money's simply too good to pass up and his wife's nudging to "up the count on the pedometer Dude".  JC Jones will have to finally play a public course as a rater.  Sean Arble and his buddies will scratch their heads down the pub as they drink warm Tesco.

[Tim Fenchel]

The USGA tried to do something different--in a new part of the country.  I believe they are to be commended for venturing out from the norm.  And they showcased the most important issue to the game of golf--the sustainability of golf courses in a time of water shortages that will persist.  They know that golf must be more eco-friendly to survive.  So, give them a break for trying something innovative.

I largely agree with this sentiment...the problem lies in the fact that they didn't stop there.  Taking the open to the PNW, on a completely different kind of course than tradition has allowed and promoting the virtues of sustainability are all great things...and I like that they did it. Altering the course to the extent that it appears they did plus the goofiness of the issue of par and the inconsistent greens seems to be a fair basis for critique and criticism.

[Terry Lavin]

I know that being tough and judgmental is a hallmark of this site, but I think people are being a bit over-critical.
The USGA tried to do something different--in a new part of the country.  I believe they are to be commended for venturing out from the norm.  And they showcased the most important issue to the game of golf--the sustainability of golf courses in a time of water shortages that will persist.  They know that golf must be more eco-friendly to survive.  So, give them a break for trying something innovative.
And while I'm at it--I was skeptical that Fox would do a good job on the telecast.  But, while not perfect, it exceeded my expectations.

I agree with this analysis.  Trying to change is a good thing.  Perpetuating the urge to simply punish the golfer on pretty much every hole on every round has led to tournaments that were the visual equivalent of watching men crawl on broken glass.  The course and the setup allowed a number of great players to play well.  At different important times, things got into various players' heads that caused them to blink and mess up, but the overall setup of the course on any given day did not lend itself to the kind of horror show golf that we've come to expect at most US Opens.
 
I was disappointed by various aspects of the agronomic presentation of the golf course, but stuff happens and I remain convinced that none of the bumpy greens materially affected the outcome of the championship.

[George Pazin]

Nice posts, Terry and Jim.

It's always interesting to see how many clamor for change, but when it happens, they are perplexed. Such is life, I guess.

[Tim_Weiman]

My takeaway is that I would like to go play Chambers Bay. Most exciting tournament in a long time. Complaints about the greens don't bother me.

[Carl Rogers]

The 2015 US Open had to be a lot more interesting than last years Kaymer's romp. 


I don't agree with of all the cynicism with state of the game, unless it is within the narrow perspective of media contracts and viewership. I have always wondered why the USGA gets blamed for TV viewership or the lack thereof. 


I get to play on better courses w/ better equipment now than I have ever have because the game has grown.

[Steve Lang]

   warts and all, a step in the right direction... us opens should be on public courses more often than not

[Carl Rogers]

If the South African Grace won, (along with the other issues discussed)would this US Open be called a fluke?

[Brent Hutto]

If the South African Grace won, (along with the other issues discussed)would this US Open be called a fluke?

Probably.

[cary lichtenstein]

Terrific

[jeffwarne]

A bunch of pissed off guys who had a free Taylor driver snatched from their hands will never forget this one

Great point

Many collective groans

[BHoover]

If the South African Grace won, (along with the other issues discussed)would this US Open be called a fluke?

Probably.

How so? Branden Grace has more professional victories than Jordan Spieth. Granted, Spieth now has 4 Tour wins, 2 of which happen to be majors (plus an Australian Open), but that's fewer wins than Grace has.

A fluke win was Todd Hamilton or Ben Curtis (although he has turned in an admirable professional career). Wouldn't Francis Ouimet also be considered a fluke winner?

[Phil McDade]

A fluke win was Todd Hamilton or Ben Curtis (although he has turned in an admirable professional career). Wouldn't Francis Ouimet also be considered a fluke winner?

Orville Moody -- end of discussion.

[Paul Gray]

For all the moaning from the golfing masses, how many now assume a course with a fairway 107 yards wide is easy? Width has entered the subconscious without anyone noticing.

[Carl Rogers]

A fluke win was Todd Hamilton or Ben Curtis (although he has turned in an admirable professional career). Wouldn't Francis Ouimet also be considered a fluke winner?

Orville Moody -- end of discussion.

Do "fluke" winners de-legitimize the golf course as a championship venue?
Olympic - Webb Simpson
Champions - Orville Moody
Royal St. George's - Ben Curtis
Troon - Todd Hamilton
In my mind it does not.  It tells me that there a strong depth of field and that anything can happen.

[Phil McDade]

A fluke win was Todd Hamilton or Ben Curtis (although he has turned in an admirable professional career). Wouldn't Francis Ouimet also be considered a fluke winner?

Orville Moody -- end of discussion.

Do "fluke" winners de-legitimize the golf course as a championship venue?
Olympic - Webb Simpson
Champions - Orville Moody
Royal St. George's - Ben Curtis
Troon - Todd Hamilton
In my mind it does not.  It tells me that there a strong depth of field and that anything can happen.

Carl:


Do you think Champions was a good championship venue? The USGA apparently did not think so; it's never been back (nor has the PGA ever held its championship there). Among the Open Championship rota courses, where does Troon rank as a championship venue -- in the upper half, or lower half?


I'm not sure Webb Simpson is a flukey winner of a US Open, or Curtis -- both made Ryder Cup teams on merit. And while no one seems to think Spieth is a fluke (me chief among them), his career could end up looking like Bill Rodgers' or even Johnny Miller's -- excellence for a very short period of time.


In the end, really good players win majors on really good courses, and mediocre ones (See: Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods). Flukey winners of majors win on some great courses, and not-so-great ones.

[Carl Rogers]

Do "fluke" winners de-legitimize the golf course as a championship venue?
Olympic - Webb Simpson
Champions - Orville Moody
Royal St. George's - Ben Curtis
Troon - Todd Hamilton
In my mind it does not.  It tells me that there a strong depth of field and that anything can happen.



Carl:


Do you think Champions was a good championship venue? The USGA apparently did not think so; it's never been back (nor has the PGA ever held its championship there). Among the Open Championship rota courses, where does Troon rank as a championship venue -- in the upper half, or lower half?

I'm not sure Webb Simpson is a flukey winner of a US Open, or Curtis -- both made Ryder Cup teams on merit. And while no one seems to think Spieth is a fluke (me chief among them), his career could end up looking like Bill Rodgers' or even Johnny Miller's -- excellence for a very short period of time.

In the end, really good players win majors on really good courses, and mediocre ones (See: Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods). Flukey winners of majors win on some great courses, and not-so-great ones.

Phil,  I am trying to get a reaction and keep the conversation going. 
I cannot comment on the Champions and whole lot of other courses because I have not and will never play them.   I can only observe and discern the consensus opinion concerning courses on this web site.  I do not think we are far off in our respective attitudes.

[Steve Lang]

   Champions filled in as an alternate venue for the USGA on rather short notice for the Open in 1968...   
Champions hosted the Tour Championship for a couple of years... before they moved to Eastlake...  the bag piper walking off into the morning fog down a fairway in memory of Payne Stewart was quite memorable.
Champions was last course Hogan competed on..
Great history there, Great course to see the pros up close... kicks most folk's games into reality.

[Frank Giordano]

When I look at the names at the top of the leaderboard, I find it hard to think this Open did not succeed in identifying the best players who participated in this rigorous event.  All agronomic and conditioning factors were experienced by the entire field, every day.  The most talented, most imaginative players were found where we'd all hoped they would.  If we're judging a stern test as well as a demanding golf course, the test passed, with pretty high honors.