Is Chambers Bay the Moment the Public "Gets It"?

[Paul Gray]

If Pinehurst was the US Open for the aficionado, is Chambers Bay, complete with it's more obvious, upfront renaissance architecture (if I can call it that), the moment when the golfing masses at least begin to understand the notion of firm and fast strategic golf? Many of us warned that Pinehurst, although a very good start, was nothing more than a start. Nothing was ever going to change overnight. But Chambers Bay, just maybe, is a visually bold enough course to progress public perception. Maybe, just maybe?


Yes, the sprinklers might have to hit the greens hard overnight and, yes, the conservatives will no doubt continue to be resistant to anything they didn't grow up to believe represented elitism. Actually, I imagine the latest guy to jump into the GOP clown car is beginning to wear his fingers out with all that tweeting but, by and large, at least on this side of the pond, I'm hearing a very positive response to this event, both from the public and the TV broadcast. Sky are stumbling a bit to find people to explain the course but they are doing what they can to get with the programme, so to speak.


Over to the collective.

[Josh Tarble]

Paul,


I think it's a possibility.  Chambers is almost the reverse of Pinehurst in that regards.  For every slope that repels shots, there are 3 or 4 that push it closer to the hole.  The huge elevation changes mean you see the ball flying AND rolling.  I know it's a US Open, but it looks FUN.  Pinehurst looked like a hot, dusty grind.

[Joe Zucker]

I wish this would be true, but I don't think so.  It's possible/probably that the public will like the course because as someone mentioned elsewhere, a lot of the slopes help players get the ball closer to the hole, which will be fun to watch.  But I don't think they will "get it" simply because watching it on TV is not the same as playing it.

Golfers in the UK "get it" because they have experienced it over and over and have seen how much fun it can be.  But pretty much no one in America gets to play links golf because there are so few courses where the ground game is possible on a daily basis.  The ground is just not suited for bouncing balls on the majority if the US courses, so the green and lush course will remain the norm.  We have repeated exposure to links golf every year with the Open and that appears not to have changed peoples' minds in the States. 

I would guess playing it routinely is the only way to "get it",  having only made one trip to Scotland I know I don't fully "get it" yet.  Our fake links courses are pretty fun (Erin Hills or Whistling Straits), but they don't play like a true links course.  Until people can see their own 190 yard drive roll out to 260, they won't know what they are missing and how much fun it can be.

[jeffwarne]

What are the advantages of fescue greens?
Other than being able to say you "get it"?

[Matthew Essig]

If you look at social media, the general public is "flipping the fuck out" about the "shit brown" colored greens. As of right now on Thursday, I don't think they get it. Hopefully, some will come around by the weekend.

[Marty Bonnar]

Monty's on Sky right now, having scored pretty well, saying the greens are 'not good'. They do look disastrous. That amount of poa is not links-like in the slightest. Other than that, I'm loving the golf course.
F.

[Ben Sims]

What are the advantages of fescue greens?
Other than being able to say you "get it"?

Similar to the advantages of The Goat and telling everyone you get it because you like it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I grow weary of folks that only allow for one type of golf.  I love links golf and fast and firm conditions. But even links courses get wet and slow from time to time. 

[jeffwarne]

What are the advantages of fescue greens?


Other than being able to say you "get it"?

Similar to the advantages of The Goat and telling everyone you get it because you like it.

Ben
You know agronomy.
What are the advantages?
Cost? Wear?
Environmental sustainability?

[Ben Sims]

What are the advantages of fescue greens?


Other than being able to say you "get it"?

Similar to the advantages of The Goat and telling everyone you get it because you like it.

Ben
You know agronomy.
What are the advantages?
Cost? Wear?
Environmental sustainability?

Well, I wouldn't say I know agronomy. Especially compared to the talent of the fescue mafia assembled in University Place WA this week. Thanks for the compliment though. Can I engage the question after the tournament?

[Dave McCollum]

From my seat, no chance here in USA.  They'll think its ugly.  Not my view.  I love links golf.  However, I'd be out of the business if I didn't cater to the chlorophyll addicts.  My rationalization is that we have about six months where we play fast and firm and another six months where green is king.  The other part is providing the maximum pleasure to the greatest number.  The chlorophyll crowd just gets the best weather.   

[Garland Bayley]

Until I played Tenby, Chambers Bay was my favorite golf course for scenery. I can't help but think the scenery is shining through on the broadcast. Will the scenic local motivate people to the links so that they can "get it?"


Dave,


Did you get my PM?

[Paul Gray]

I grow weary of folks that only allow for one type of golf.  I love links golf and fast and firm conditions. But even links courses get wet and slow from time to time.

But Tommy, the question is not whether you or I can appreciate a different kind of golf. The question is whether the golfing populous can allow for more than one kind of golf. According to social media, the answer is currently a very strong NO. To be fair to the masses, those greens are browner than anything I've ever seen in twenty five years of links golf, but then I suspect I very rarely play on greens where stimp readings are considered so crucial. Beyond the greens though, I do wonder if exposure in itself isn't going to gradually have a soothing effect. Time will tell.

[Greg Chambers]

The course is fantastic...until they get to the greens.  The golfing public will never accept greens like these.

[archie_struthers]

Wow,  wow !   How could anyone not enjoy watching this so far . It's hardly a slog , there have been some really
 good scores , and its obvious there is some cool strategy out there.


I'm still getting a feel for the golf course , never having seen it in person . However I've been to Sand Hills , and I'm thinking it's very similar in lots of respects. How could you like one and not the other . Could you make a case that RTJ forced too many tees up in the air, maybe .  But did Coore and Crenshaw make that mistake too? 


So far very enjoyable refreshingly unique for the Open . Looks like a nice event if Dustin doesn't run away with it .

[BHoover]

Judging by comments on Facebook and Twitter, I don't think about 95% of the public "gets it", unless by getting it, you mean hates it.

[Charlie_Bell]

The public MIGHT get excited about Chambers Bay if there's a fantastic finish by a couple of big-time players (say, Phil and Bubba) at the top of their games who battle head to head and then RAVE about how much fun it is.


Even if that were to happen, the only consequence would that a lot of golfers would want to play Chambers Bay -- but not firm-fast-brown in general.


Although the public MIGHT get excited if/when the Open returns to Chambers Bay, almost everyone will simply consider brown ugly.

[BCowan]

The course is fantastic...until they get to the greens.  The golfing public will never accept greens like these.

+1, well said.

   It would be cool if they had a few test chipping greens with the modern bent varieties out there to see how they fair.  With no shade issues the modern bent grass IMO would keep the poa out.  They also require much less water.  Some of the fescue elitist haven't experienced the modern bents in a non Arb setting and might be surprised.    Enjoying the US Open.   

[Greg Chambers]

You're not going to keep poa out in the PNW

[Steve Okula]

What are the advantages of fescue greens?
Other than being able to say you "get it"?

Compared to bentgrass, fescue gets by on less water and fertilizer, and is more disease resistant.

On the down side, fescue is slower growing and less agressive, meaning it's less tolerant of traffic, compared to bentgrass, and is more susceptible to weed invasion. It's also sensitive to herbicides, making weed control complicated. Evidently CB hasn't figured out a way to control Poa, and it appears those greens will be predominantly Poa in the not too distant future.

[Tim Leahy]

Maybe the British Open will be played on a parkland course with lush soft smooth consistant greens and manicured fairways just to even things out.
I missed some of the tv coverage today. Which holes had the windmill and clown's mouth? Miniature golf is "fun" too. Sorry, the putting surfaces are much smoother and more consistant on most mini golf courses. The US Open venue is supposed to showcase the best of American golf and this is not it. But it will be a fun time for fans of Putt Putt golf.

[Pat Burke]

I'm going to apologize in advance, but after watching a the US Am, and round 1, I definitely don't get it.
The greens were ok early, but were a mess in the afternoon.
Members in the grill today were mostly ambivalent about the place, but the only strong opinions I saw
were negative.
I haven't been to Chambers Bay, so I am commenting, probably stupidly, based on what I've watched.
The course seems forced.  The conditions extreme, and maybe it's just too soon for a fescue course to be hosting this event, especially after all the renovation work?
The worm cam shots showed greens that looked and rolled poorly (later).  Now, in fairness, the '92 Open at Pebble had pretty wobbly poa greens as well.  They were basically dead with a lot of paint on them.  Common thread, is the USGA trying to put their mark on something I guess.

[Stuart Hallett]

You just cannot neglect greens quality to that extent, no matter what golf course, US Open or not.
They've had time to prepare, the poa didn't just appear last week and the fescue looks miserable. Why didn't they address the problem earlier ? It's not the only course infested by poa, it's a pretty frequent problem on golf greens.
It's about the only time i've felt bad for Pro's standing over a putt of 6 feet. The quality of the greens will stick in viewers memories for a long time, sort of spoils the advert for linksy golf !
Nevermind, TOC soon.

[Adrian_Stiff]

More to the point will the 5% that think they got it realise it did not work.


In principal CB is great. Fescue for greens does not work at the top end. If the greens were pure poa it would be significantly better. Fescue likes 6mm heights. [size=78%]Fescue is a whole different grass to any other and its integration with other grasses becomes a nightmare as the day (growth) goes on. I am suprised no one has tried (perhaps they have) the more traditional European bents in the PNW. That at least integrates better with poa and the cultural methods are similar, where as the cultural methods for festuca are wildly opposite to Poa.[/size]
[/size]
[/size]CB is getting a lot of bad press on the social networks, at our club all the talk is about how bad the greens are, how hard it is to watch on TV, yet there is an underlying love for the slopes with many.[size=78%]

[Ryan Coles]

How much fescue are in most of the old links courses in GB&I?


They certainly don't look anything like Chambers Bay.