News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jeff Bergeron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« on: June 14, 2015, 05:23:49 PM »
KPMG is a marvelous sponsor. Great presentation of the Championship, good ads and combining the event with a Women's Leadership Conference with top CEOs is a stroke of marketing genius. (This from a recently retired MP of a competitor.)
Westchester looks fantastic. I didn't even recognize it from the old PGA Tour event. A poster child for new grasses and significant tree removal.Looks like there are still 500+ trees to go.
!8 under is just too low for a major. The LPGA has a problem with a lack of drama in their marquee events. The lack of depth in the fields is a problem that hurts their marketability. Champions Tour has a similar problem (exhibition mentality).

Les Cordes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2015, 11:35:27 PM »
It's truly amazing that a player as unathletic looking (and swinging) as Inbee park can leave the LPGA stars in the dust ..  that she could go that low in a major and win by that ride a margin makes you wonder about tour quality and course setup. Strange.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2015, 11:40:19 PM »
Or maybe she's good. Really, really good.
We are no longer a country of laws.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2015, 11:47:50 PM »
"It's truly amazing that a player as unathletic looking (and swinging) as Inbee park can leave the LPGA stars in the dust ..  that she could go that low in a major and win by that ride a margin makes you wonder about tour quality and course setup. Strange"

Les C. -

I would be very careful about making judgements of people's athletic abilities based on how they look, either standing still or when moving.  In addition, winning in sports (and especially in a sport like golf) involves a whole lot more than athleticism. Yogi Berra is possibly the greatest winner in the history of baseball and you never would know it by looking at him.

Inbee Park has been one of the top players on the LPGA Tour for several years now. She is a great putter, just like Jordan Spieth. I fail to see how her LPGA win this weekend diminishes the field or the set-up of the course.

DT

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 12:36:10 AM »
I think the low scoring probably has to do with the fact they played it as a Par 73, which surprised me a little bit. I noticed that they played #12 as a par-five which it is for members, but always played as a par-four in the Westchester Classic. After watching all week, I think that they should have played it as a par-four for the women too, as pretty much every single player I watched easily reached the green in two with an iron.

Then they also played #15 as a par-five, which as far as I know has never been a par-five for members and certainly not the pros.

As for Inbee Park, quite simply she might be the best putter on the planet, man or woman. I'm not sure I've seen anyone better.... maybe Crenshaw or when Retief Goosen was on his hot streak. Sometimes I get the feeling watching her that all she has to do to make a birdie is hit the green.





American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 01:39:33 AM »
KPMG is a marvelous sponsor. Great presentation of the Championship, good ads and combining the event with a Women's Leadership Conference with top CEOs is a stroke of marketing genius. (This from a recently retired MP of a competitor.)
Westchester looks fantastic. I didn't even recognize it from the old PGA Tour event. A poster child for new grasses and significant tree removal.Looks like there are still 500+ trees to go.
!8 under is just too low for a major. The LPGA has a problem with a lack of drama in their marquee events. The lack of depth in the fields is a problem that hurts their marketability. Champions Tour has a similar problem (exhibition mentality).


Actually it was a par 70 (you missed the apologies for the misprint on the score card), and the winning score was really four under. Satisfied?

Give me a break! The Men's US Open lacked drama last year. Pinehurst must not be a course for a US Open if you can get to double digits under par.

Fixation on par is ruining golf. Get over it already!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 09:02:25 AM »
!8 under is just too low for a major. The LPGA has a problem with a lack of drama in their marquee events. The lack of depth in the fields is a problem that hurts their marketability. Champions Tour has a similar problem (exhibition mentality).


Jeff: These statements are, to me, built on false premises.

As for -18 (really, -19) being too low for a major, blame Kerry Haigh, the PGA setup man, not the women. I'm with the others who say par doesn't matter. But was I the only one who was a little dismayed that several members of the TV networks made it sound like they were shocked that the women were shooting such low numbers on such a demanding golf course? They made it sound like the women just starting playing golf professionally last week. These women are incredibly good--and have been for a really long time.

As for "lack of drama," the tournaments that lack the most drama--involving the men or the women--are always majors. Why does separation most often occurs in majors, not in regular tournaments? Because the more demanding setups--and the added pressure--mean that recovering from errant shots is more difficult, and bogeys and doubles are more common. Remember what Tiger's goal was in the final round of the 2000 U.S. Open? To not make any bogeys. And when he did just that, his 10-shot 54-hole lead ballooned even higher, to 15 shots. In majors, making pars creates more separation than in regular tournaments. So when Inbee Park, amazingly, posts her final three rounds in a major without any bogeys at all, you get a 5-shot win. If one player, in other words, gets hot during a major and minimizes mistakes, s/he will win by a large margin--because many, many fewer players will also get hot and be able to sustain it.

Finally, as for "lack of depth," I've noted in several other GCA posts that I don't believe the consistently star-studded leaderboards on the LPGA Tour reflect a lack of depth. (And, even if they did, I'm not sure why anyone is complaining. Aren't those the leaderboards every fan and TV executive dreams of?) Given that the same equipment advances are available to the men and to the women, why would the LPGA Tour lack depth while the PGA Tour would possess it? I don't buy the argument. Instead, what makes sense is that the best women are simply that much better--not just in talent, but at winning (having the intangibles that David describes)--than the rest of the tour. On the men's side, there are fewer prolific winners, so the result is a seemingly more "deep" field.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 09:32:43 AM »
Or maybe she's good. Really, really good.

Why can't it just be that?

If they called it a par 75 and she ended up 27 under would that further diminish it?
or a would it being a par 70 and she being -7 elevate it?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 10:19:41 AM »
Or maybe she's good. Really, really good.

Why can't it just be that?


Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...

Let's have this discussion next week *after* we see how the supposed last arbiters of the meaning of par handle themselves.

Jeff Bergeron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 12:13:32 PM »



As for -18 (really, -19) being too low for a major, blame Kerry Haigh, the PGA setup man, not the women. I'm with the others who say par doesn't matter. But was I the only one who was a little dismayed that several members of the TV networks made it sound like they were shocked that the women were shooting such low numbers on such a demanding golf course? They made it sound like the women just starting playing golf professionally last week. These women are incredibly good--and have been for a really long time.

As for "lack of drama," the tournaments that lack the most drama--involving the men or the women--are always majors. Why does separation most often occurs in majors, not in regular tournaments? Because the more demanding setups--and the added pressure--mean that recovering from errant shots is more difficult, and bogeys and doubles are more common. Remember what Tiger's goal was in the final round of the 2000 U.S. Open? To not make any bogeys. And when he did just that, his 10-shot 54-hole lead ballooned even higher, to 15 shots. In majors, making pars creates more separation than in regular tournaments. So when Inbee Park, amazingly, posts her final three rounds in a major without any bogeys at all, you get a 5-shot win. If one player, in other words, gets hot during a major and minimizes mistakes, s/he will win by a large margin--because many, many fewer players will also get hot and be able to sustain it.

I didn't blame the Women for the low scoring. I acknowledge the women are very good and Park played great.

I don't believe the facts would support your assertion that all the majors lack drama. I'll grant you the 2000 mens open did.

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 02:48:13 PM »
I was able to attend the Women's PGA Champ on Saturday and I had a great time. I thought the course looked great; my only previous reference point was from the PGA Tour event hosted annually until 2007. There were a few holes the could probably still lose a few (pine) trees, but overall I was impressed...especially with the greens.

From my own personal experience and conversations with other media members, fans and officials, this year's event (and hopefully future years) have helped elevate women's golf. I was especially glad that the event received live coverage on broadcast television...that's huge for the women.

As for the low scores and course setup, a few things (from my perspective alone).
  • Par was 73...you're going to have a lot of birdies
  • This was the PGA of America's (and Kerry's) first women's major. I'm only speculating, but I would imagine they wanted to be conservative in their setup for year one since they don't work with women golfers each week or year like the LPGA does. The last thing they needed was a course that was too difficult that received poor feedback from the players, media and fans. That's not how to get a championship off on the right foot.
  • Depth of the field: Let's look at the leaderboard, shall we? 1. Inbee Park (No. 1 in world); 2. Sei Young Kim (No. 11); 3. Lexi Thompson (No. 10); 4. Brittany Lincicombe (No. 8); T5. Morgan Pressel (No. 20); T5. Brooke Henderson (No. 51); T7. Suzann Peterson (No. 5); T7. Karrie Webb (No. 15); T9. Gerina Piller (No. 44); T9. Anna Nordqvist (No. 9); That's a pretty strong top 10. If you're talking purely about entertainment factor (a la Tiger Woods) or recognition (Paula Creamer [T34], Michelle Wie [T41], Stacy Lewis [T13], Lydia Ko [Cut]), then you might have a point, but depth? This was a pretty impressive leaderboard. If you're speaking about the margin of victory (five strokes), sure, it could have been a little more exciting, but it was extremely impressive play by Park. Good for her.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2015, 09:32:49 PM »
I thought the course looked and played great due to the tree removal.

Ps. I think the city of Rochester got screwed by Whan and the LPGA.    They had supported the LPGA for decades only to find the tour saying "see ya"

Ed Homsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 08:05:58 PM »
I thought the course looked and played great because it is a terrific--perhaps even, great course.  As with many great courses, it benefited from significant tree removal.

Inbee Park always seemed to have her ball in the right position on the green, and when she didn't, her putting made up for it.  I watched her on many occasions when the tournament was in Rochester.  She's a great player.  She's not demonstrative or flamboyant, and does not wear her feelings on her sleeves.  Just steady, solid golf.  Something many of us could learn from, though I wouldn't want to try to mimic that swing.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Musings on the KPMG LPGA Championship
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 08:09:15 PM »
I thought the course looked and played great because it is a terrific--perhaps even, great course.  As with many great courses, it benefited from significant tree removal.

Inbee Park always seemed to have her ball in the right position on the green, and when she didn't, her putting made up for it.  I watched her on many occasions when the tournament was in Rochester.  She's a great player.  She's not demonstrative or flamboyant, and does not wear her feelings on her sleeves.  Just steady, solid golf.  Something many of us could learn from, though I wouldn't want to try to mimic that swing.


I think she learned the swing from Rich Choi.
;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne