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TEPaul

Allwoodley G.C.
« on: September 09, 2003, 05:38:19 AM »
Played this course last Friday. What a treat that was particularly with the fast conditions this summer in the British Isles.

The course and its architecture just appeared to naturally lay there and many in the group remarked that they couldn't imagine a routing any different or better than what it is!! I thought the par 3s were the star of that layout, although some of the other holes were fascinating in a minimalist and routing sense.

On the wall in the clubhouse were two of Mackenzie's original and very detailed course design drawings but stupid me--I forgot my glasses and just couldn't read his writing!!

Just the overall look of that golf course is really glorious though!

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2003, 06:35:16 AM »
Glad you enjoyed it.  I love the course and it's invariably in very good condition.  By the way there's only one L - it's Alwoodley.  I have a copy of that Mackenzie map and I bet if you contacted the club they'd let you have a copy.  Mackenzie's notes and suggestions make interesting reading.  His suggestions for the 10th and 11th were later implemented, the 10th said to be the model for the 13th at Augusta and the 11th made to replicate the problems of Gibraltar, next door at Moortown.  The course was then about 6200 yards long from the medal tees.

TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2003, 08:07:27 AM »
Mark:

The other half of the group played Moortown that day but I think I'm glad I was slotted to Alwoodley. There was another oddity to almost all the greens that we ran across over there. They looked real slow but they weren't really. Chipping and pitching always seemed to be on the strong side!

And then there was the two foursome rounds at Muirfield with the famous two and one half hour lunch (and guess what in between). I've got to wait awhile before talking about that day! I never drink in the day but had to make the exception that time! My American partner said he thought we needed to be at least four up on them going into the afternoon foursome and as it turned out he was right on the money--we lost two down in the traditional 36 hole foursome match. Muirfield is one of the best I've ever seen--very different. I'll probably be able to come up with some research there if I work at it. It looks to me though like the club should consider putting back some of the Colt bunkering that's been removed over the years--a good example would be on #1--both middle and right side fairway.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 08:09:06 AM by TEPaul »

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2003, 09:30:33 AM »
Lucky man!  I've never played Muirfield.  I'm sure you are right that you did better by playing Alwoodley rather than Moortown.  It's not that there's anything wrong with Moortown, but it's had to be altered over the years, losing some of the original holes adjacent to new housing developments.  Also, there's something more spacious about Alwoodley, some of which is to do with their having taken quite a few trees out, giving those wonderful sight lines running over many holes.  I hope to know rather more about Alwoodley in the near future as I may be involved in writing their centenary book.  

Leeds is well provided with top rate golf courses - far better than Bradford or Manchester.  As well as Alwoodley and Moortown there's Sand Moor close at hand (also Mackenzie).  Moor Allerton used to adjoin Moortown and also had a Mackenzie course, but they moved out into the countryside some years ago and now have 27 holes of Trent Jones Snr architecture with which to contend.  I've not played it, but Headingley (also Mackenzie) is well reputed.  You can see quite a lot of it from the roads which cross it, and it looks very rural with sweeping landscapes from its exposed high ground.  The Leeds Golf Club is very attractive too http://www.leedsgolfclub.com/photos.htm, though I don't know who designed it.  There are two excellent municipal courses at Temple Newsam (designer?).  Scarcroft is a Major C.A Mackenzie course http://www.scarcroftgc.co.uk/page1.htm

and then there are the delights of Harrogate just up the road: Harrogate (Herd), Oakdale (Mackenzie) and Pannal (Herd/Mackenzie).  

Happy times!

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2003, 09:34:35 AM »
There are in fact two L's in Alwoodley.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2003, 09:46:57 AM »
Sorry - only one L at the beginning!  You know what I mean!

There's a nice web site

http://www.alwoodley.co.uk/

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2003, 12:29:23 PM »
Tom,
Glad you got to see Alwoodly. A very unmemorable round for me because I was so cold from the wind blowing the slight "chill" (hopefully Mark will be able to further back-up how cold that chill can get in early July) off of the Moors, it made for a less then memorable round at Alwoodly, as far as trying to remember the holes and features of my hero.

Still, I thought of Leeds as a beautiful place, "The City of Green" I think they call it.

Mark,
I had searched high and low and what I had found was that there was little of any MacKenzie left at Headingly or Sand Moor, thus didn't make the trip over across town to go see them. Did I make a mistake?


THuckaby2

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2003, 12:45:39 PM »
TEP:

Very cool to hear you did the Muirfield day.  It is one hell of a golf experience and I'll be interested to read more of your thoughts about that and about the course.  Yeah, it's kinda hard NOT to drink in between the rounds, isn't it?

Interesting to me you did the entire day as foursomes though... we did fourball in am, foursomes in pm, as most people do.  Your way sounds pretty damn fun to me!

Funny how different people's results are, also.  I got my ass handed to me in the am and thus my partner and I decided we needed to get better "fortified" for the pm foursomes... which we did, most handsomely thank you very much... and with such fortification, we went out and opened a 5&4 can of whupass on two players who were truly better than us.

Oh yes, this was a very memorable day....  ;D

TH
« Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 12:46:33 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2003, 12:59:11 PM »
Tommy,

I have to confess that the last two times I've played at Alwoodley they were warm, windless days, but I do know how cold it can be, even in summer, when the wrong wind is blowing more or less anywhere in the north of England.  On its raised site, Alwoodley does not escape the wind.

If you wanted to visit Sand Moor and Headingley simply for their Mackenzie connections you were probably right to give them a miss.  As far as I can tell, Mackenzie made alterations to existing courses.  The Headingley brochure simply says that Mackenzie '....was retained to play an important part in the early lay-out of the course.'  Sand Moor, on its web site says:  The original Sand Moor course was developed for Leeds clothier, Henry Barran in 1921.
Further improvements with the assistance of Dr MacKenzie, who was a member of the first Greens Committee, and famous for the 'MacKenzie Green' resulted in much of the course as it is today.

Initially the course was split by Alwoodley Lane with the Clubhouse and the first two and last holes on one side, and the remaining fourteen holes on the other. In 1961 the Sand Moor Committee decided that the Clubhouse and course should be self-contained on the North side of Alwoodley Lane. The project was completed in 1968. The course has continued to develop and there have been many improvements to the Clubhouse since then, the latest in 1997.

That said, Sand Moor is a good test of golf, whoever designed it, and golf at Headingley is played in delighjtful surroundings.  As far as I can tell Headingley doesn't have a web site.  Sand Moor's is:
 http://www.sandmoorgolf.co.uk/

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2003, 01:09:50 PM »
Tommy,

I have to confess that the last two times I've played at Alwoodley they were warm, windless days, but I do know how cold it can be, even in summer, when the wrong wind is blowing more or less anywhere in the north of England.  On its raised site, Alwoodley does not escape the wind.

If you wanted to visit Sand Moor and Headingley simply for their Mackenzie connections you were probably right to give them a miss.  As far as I can tell, Mackenzie made alterations to existing courses.  The Headingley brochure simply says that Mackenzie '....was retained to play an important part in the early lay-out of the course.'  Sand Moor, on its web site says:  The original Sand Moor course was developed for Leeds clothier, Henry Barran in 1921.
Further improvements with the assistance of Dr MacKenzie, who was a member of the first Greens Committee, and famous for the 'MacKenzie Green' resulted in much of the course as it is today.

Initially the course was split by Alwoodley Lane with the Clubhouse and the first two and last holes on one side, and the remaining fourteen holes on the other. In 1961 the Sand Moor Committee decided that the Clubhouse and course should be self-contained on the North side of Alwoodley Lane. The project was completed in 1968. The course has continued to develop and there have been many improvements to the Clubhouse since then, the latest in 1997.

That said, Sand Moor is a good test of golf, whoever designed it, and golf at Headingley is played in delightful surroundings.  As far as I can tell Headingley doesn't have a web site.  Sand Moor's is:
 http://www.sandmoorgolf.co.uk/

TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2003, 01:24:57 PM »
The only thing I never really saw in nine rounds over eight days of playing in Scotland and England was wind--not much anyway. The whole ten days, including the Walker Cup had to have been remarkably calm for those who know those areas and its golf. The reason it was that way may not be obvious to them but it is to me. The only reason is that beautiful days and the sun follow me almost everywhere--always have!

GeoffreyC

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2003, 01:28:34 PM »
TE Paul

"The only reason is that beautiful days and the sun follow me almost everywhere--always have! "

really.  What the hell happened earlier this year at Piping Rock?  ??? Well it was a beautiful day but without the sun for sure.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 01:29:30 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2003, 01:41:56 PM »
I will agree with that one totally!

And just to show you, a satellite blow-up from the scene of the crime. I have to pinch myself once in a while to make me realize I was there....


TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2003, 02:28:23 PM »
GeoffreyC:

I forgot about that one--that was a bad one. But the reason that day was so bad was I wasn't planning on playing anyway. If I'd decided to tee it up the sun would've come out for sure.

That happened to me in Ireland every time. Sometime the days were awful, rain, wind, whatever but when playing time came the magic happened.

It happened at Royal County Down that even the Irish contingent found hard to believe. We were all in having a big groaning lunch in the clubhouse and it was just awful outside but I'd already told them I'd take care of that somehow. Tee time was so near they thought I'd lost the magic but no sooner had we gotten out the door than the sun came blasting through. What a day that was. As we walked off the 18th green into the pro shop we saw the second plane hit NYC's trade tower!

I even offered GAP's exec-director to take care of some adverse weather earlier this summer while officiating a tournament but I wasn't playing so I told him he'd have to pay me for the magic but he said he didn't think he could afford me so I just let it rain!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 02:30:41 PM by TEPaul »

GeoffreyC

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2003, 02:34:17 PM »
TE Paul

You need to play more often.  You should also team up with Cirba.  He's never had a day of golf on a trip canceled due to rain.  It almost happened in Michigan when we were scheduled to play High Pointe but he got off on a technicality. Seems like Piping Rock was a technicality too.

Please try to use those amazing powers for the good of mankind.  You could be a real weapon if George W ever learns about you.

TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2003, 03:04:16 PM »
Geoffrey:

George Bush can't have my services or my weather magic but what the hell all things are at least negotiable--I guess. I'll talk to him but what's he asking us to pay now--something like 87 billion? I'll need at least half of that for starters. It ain't cheap to divert the rain to the middle East and turn it into a Garden of Eden again so I can blanket the GD place with lush golf courses and get those people hooked on golf and architecture and the aerial game so at the very least they'll stop hurling explosives around and stop trying to kill each other and every one else! What I'm gonna do to the French won't come cheap either!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 03:17:17 PM by TEPaul »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2003, 03:07:33 PM »
Geoff, Look closer!

TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2003, 03:19:34 PM »
Geoff:

The photo is the playhouse in LI and I think I can see Townie Gray trying to get the key in the door!

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2003, 03:22:28 PM »
Tom, No, your wrong, it is MY playhouse!:)

GeoffreyC

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2003, 03:23:59 PM »
Holy crap that is the playhouse with the dome for the tennis court. That was a beautiful day rain and all!

TEPaul

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2003, 03:33:23 PM »
Furthermore, it's one Thomas Aloyisious Naccarato that Bush needs working for him, not me. The CIA and Bush needs Tommy's aerial sevices, not my weather magic. Some of that 87 billion needs to be diverted Tommy's way--I swear he could home in on Osama Bin Laden through aerial work even if that maniac's ass is hiding behind a urinal in Timbuktu--which it probably is!!

Mike_Cirba

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2003, 04:58:14 PM »
Geoffrey is correct.

If you want to have a good golf trip, and be assured of reasonable weather, bring me along.  ;D

In over 30 years, I have yet to lose a day of golf to a rainout or weather event on any planned trip.  That defies some law of physics or nature, I'm sure.

Of course, that DOES include playing The Old Course in 50 degrees while it was raining sideways the entire round, but hey...God only built the place, he didn't promise anything beyond that.  

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Allwoodley G.C.
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2003, 05:02:33 PM »
Well, up until Piping Rock I too had a clean slate.

I blame Gray Davis