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MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1125 on: June 03, 2015, 02:03:02 PM »
Sven,

Macdonald said that "every one thought the property was more or less worthless."  That's a direct quote.

Nuance that however you like into "finer points" but your issue is then with him, not me.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1126 on: June 03, 2015, 02:08:20 PM »
Sven,

Macdonald said that "every one thought the property was more or less worthless."  That's a direct quote.

Nuance that however you like into "finer points" but your issue is then with him, not me.

Did CBM think it was "worthless" when he purchased it for $200 an acre?  Seems like he paid too much.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1127 on: June 03, 2015, 02:13:05 PM »
Sven,

Honestly?  He saw the potential for golf due to landforms and soils.  That was worth it to him.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1128 on: June 03, 2015, 02:16:13 PM »
Sven,

Honestly?  He saw the potential for golf due to landforms and soils.  That was worth it to him.

Good, we're making progress.  30 pages ago you would have noted that there was also potential for 60 1.5 acre plots of land so that the likes of Henry Frick could build a cabin on mosquito infested swamp land.

Have a good day.  I'm off to the course.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1129 on: June 03, 2015, 02:24:14 PM »
Sven,

Macdonald said that "every one thought the property was more or less worthless."  That's a direct quote.

Nuance that however you like into "finer points" but your issue is then with him, not me.

Did CBM think it was "worthless" when he purchased it for $200 an acre?  Seems like he paid too much.

Sven

I think he wrote somewhere he got a good deal on it, making it a sound investment.  OF course, I think that was in subscription letter, so I doubt he would write he got screwed.....I don't understand the back and forth on the wording of this.  Land is always worth what someone is willing to pay for it......

As to mosquitos, I have seen a big difference in cleared land and heavy timber, and they do reduce.  A bit surprising that mosquitos were bad in a drought year in 1908......but can be in swamps.  Either way, I am sure CBM was downplaying it in his promotion of the course.

Enjoy the golf.  Around here, we are slowly getting back to dry enough to play courses....except mine of course, which have superior engineering!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1130 on: June 03, 2015, 02:34:02 PM »
Sven,

Here's what was written about the site in the Walker Cup program by the gentleman who is writing the new National Golf Links of America history book;

The site was right.   It was not perfect; far from it really.   In order to effectively transplant or reproduce the great golf holes of the world, the raw, over-grown, bogged-down canvas would require considerable preparation.   Still, Macdonald and his colleagues obtained an option on the land in November 1906 and took ownership of 205.0284 acres on June 11, 1907 for the price of $200 an acre.   It was a deal in which everybody won.   The Shinnecock Hills and Peconic Bay Realty Company was able to sell at a profit land that even it knew had little foreseeable use.   In a letter to its shareholders, the seller wrote; "Most of this property is lowland, some of it swamp.   There are but three high points taken and a large part would not be suitable for building purposes."

Similarly, the deal was favorable to Macdonald, as he was allowed to cherry-pick which 205 acres of the 450-acre plot he wanted.


As far as Mr. Frick wanting a cabin to stay in during his visits from Boston, do you think today's wealthy members at Pine Valley or Augusta seek mansions with sterling views while visiting those clubs?

Again, your problem is with CBM and what he wrote and said and proposed.   Don't shoot the messenger.

Enjoy your round!
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

DMoriarty

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1131 on: June 03, 2015, 02:40:35 PM »
Sven, Another change.  I think the article you posted is from the NY Herald, not the Evening Telegram.   And the date change above.

David:

I'm looking at it right now.  It is the Evening Telegram, and it was the 15th, which was a Monday.

Sven

Weird. The identical article (with a slightly different headline) ran on the same date in the Herald.

"C.B. Macdonald's pet scheme to plan. . ." etc.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1132 on: June 03, 2015, 02:44:01 PM »
More about the site from the Walker Cup program;

It was a 450 acre insect-infested expanse, a wasteland inhabited only by swamp bogs and thickets of berry bushes.   The land, so inhospitable that Macdonald and his future son-in-law, Jiim Whigham, could only inspect the property on horseback, was entirely overgrown.  

I'm assuming that was all just a re-stating of what Macdonald wrote in "Scotland's Gift".
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

DMoriarty

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1133 on: June 03, 2015, 02:46:47 PM »
I'm assuming that was all just a re-stating of what Macdonald wrote in "Scotland's Gift".

What?  You think the author was out there with them and reporting on personal experience? 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

DMoriarty

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1134 on: June 03, 2015, 02:56:20 PM »
And two weeks later after the Lesley Cup at Garden City Macdonald was reported as saying he was still looking at sites in Montauk and near Good Ground in the western Shinnecock Hills from which we can reasonably infer that no agreement had yet been reached, much less for 100k as that report in October stated and that negotiations were continuing.

You should try to keep track of your own story, Mike.  A few pages back you insisted that the CBM had already determined that this was the property he wanted, and that he was just dickering on the price.

I think we all agree that no final agreement had been signed by mid-October 1906. But it seems that the developer had at least agreed in principle to sell CBM land for his golf course, even if they had not yet worked out the final price or even the final acreage.  Or it could be as Sven suggested, that CBM was just playing coy until the final paperwork was complete and the deal finalized.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1135 on: June 03, 2015, 03:34:27 PM »

Again, Mike, you seem to be ignoring CBM's own words.  According to CBM's account, there was a gap between the time the developer agreed to sell CBM the property, and when CBM obtained an option.  
1.  "The company agreed to sell us 205 acres, and we were permitted to locate it as to best serve our purpose . . .
2. "Again, we studied the contours earnestly; selecting those that would fit in naturally with the various classical holes I had in mind, after which we staked out the land we wanted . . . ."
3.  "We obtained an option on the land in November, 1906 . . ."

As for rest of the information in the mid-October Articles, I agree with Sven. There is too much accurate and detailed information for you to dismiss the articles as you do.  


David,

Let's assume for a moment that this article is factually correct and your interpretation of it is spot on and and that prior to any agreement with the Real Estate Company Macdonald had the land of Sebonac Neck surveyed, a contour map created, blueprints prepared, and then mailed abroad to the folks described in the articles.

How does that square with CBM's description of what happened prior to the Agreement in Scotland's Gift?

Having the stage all set and definitely knowing what I wanted
to accomplish, with maps, sketches, and descriptions of all the more
famous holes in Great Britain, and having the $60,000-which
later was increased to $70,000-subscribed, I continued my search
to find the property on which it was possible to build the classic
golf course.

Cape Cod was very alluring. but it was too remote to attract
enough men to join the club to bring in sufficient income to preserve
it.

The land between Amagansett and Montauk was ideal, and it
would have been easy to purchase for a reasonable sum, but then,
there was no soil on which grass would grow.  It would be necessary
to top dress at least sixty acres of land. To do that with six
inches of top soil would cost over $5,000 an acre. This was prohibitive.


Note: he says he is discussing his options after returning from abroad with his sketches, etc. in mid-June 1906.

He continues...

Shinnecock Hills also was very attractive. but I preferred not
getting too close to the Shinnecock Hills Golf Course. The Shinnecock
Hills property, some 2,000 acres, had been owned by a
London syndicate and was sold at about $50 an acre to a Brooklyn
company a few weeks before I determined that we should build
a course there if we could secure the land. I offered the Shinnecock
Hills and Peconic Bay Realty Company $200 per acre for some
120 acres near the canal connecting Shinnecock Bay with the Great
Peconic Bay but the owners refused it.


Again, I'd note that either the initial sales offer for the land near the Canal happened after his return from abroad in mid-June 1906 or this is not a strict chronology, or possibly both.

Continuing...

However, there happened to be some 450 acres of land on Sebonac
Neck, having a mile frontage on Peconic Day and lying
between Cold Spring Harbor and Bull's Head Bay. This property
was little known and had never been surveyed. Everyone
thought it more or less worthless. It abounded in bogs and swamps
and was covered with an entanglement of bayberry, huckleberry,
blackberry, and other bushes and was infested by insects. The only
way one could get over the ground was on ponies. So Jim Whigham
and myself spent two or three days riding over it, studying the
contours of the ground. Finally we determined it was what we
wanted, providing we could get it reasonably. It adjoined the Shinnecock
Hills Golf Course. The company agreed to sell us 205
acres, and we were permitted to locate it as best to serve our purpose.


My plain reading of what Macdonald wrote here prior to agreement is that he and Whigham rode over the land two or three times studying the contours of the ground, determined it was what they wanted provided they could get it reasonably and the company agreed and let them locate it as best to suit their purpose.

No mention of the creation of contour maps, ongoing overseas consultations, or much else that's in that article.

Now, your point that a verbal agreement by definition proceeds a written one securing the property is self-defining.   Of course one has to agree in concept before drafting a paper contract but this discussion is about what took place before the agreement, and when the agreement took place.   We know by December 3rd from a letter to Frick that CBM had an agreement.   We know by reports from the Lesley Cup on November 1st, 1906 that he was still looking at other sites and threatening to go elsewhere if he couldn't get a good price.   We know he signed papers on December 14, 1906.

If all of that extensive, time-consuming activity of creating contour maps suitable for golf course architecture, down to 2 or 3 foot levels included in the article took place prior to the agreement don't you find it curious that there is no mention of that in "Scotland's Gift"?

As for your supposed timeline defined as questions 1, 2, 3 above, I don't think CBM differentiated between 1 & 3 and in fact there is additional information between 2 and 3 discussing how the property was more or less remote as well as which holes they found first. Put simply, by 1928 I don't think it mattered to him whether the intervening time between gaining agreement sometime after November 1st, 1906 and signing the papers on December 14th were anything worthy of note except to mention the general timeframe of events.  Do you?  

Your question is a false choice.

I may as well turn to the next page of the book and ask you which came first, again going in the order the events are mentioned in the summary of events on the creation of NGLA that you're interpreting as some strict chronology;

1) "We abandoned the site near the old Shinnecock Inn and determined to build it (clubhouse) on the high ground overlooking Peconic Bay..."

2) "I first placed the golf holes which were almost unanimously considered the finest of their character in Great Britain."

3) "We found a setting for the Alps hole which the Whighams...considered to be superior to the original type.   Strange as it may seem, we had but to look back and find a perfect Redan which was absolutely natural."

Again, your interpretation that there was some lengthy period of time between agreement and securing the property in which all of this additional design activity took place on the land doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Again, the summary of events around the creation of NGLA in the book is not a strict chronology.

When CBM mentioned, post-agreement, "Again we studied the contours earnestly; selecting those that would fit in naturally with the various classical holes I had in mind, after which we staked out the land we wanted.", it sounds exactly as he described in all the newspaper accounts concerning what would happen (and actually did happen) over the next five months once he signed the papers in December 1906.    
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 03:46:59 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1136 on: June 03, 2015, 03:58:00 PM »
To show that God has a wicked sense of humor, I've been informed that the 1906 Lesley Cup matches were not held at Garden City but instead Charles Blair Macdonald and the New York squad won 13-2 over Philadelphia in the event played at...the club whose name cannot be mentioned.   :-X ;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

DMoriarty

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1137 on: June 03, 2015, 04:23:11 PM »
Let's assume for a moment that this article is factually correct and your interpretation of it is spot on and and that prior to any agreement with the Real Estate Company Macdonald had the land of Sebonac Neck surveyed, a contour map created, blueprints prepared, and then mailed abroad to the folks described in the articles.

Where did I say anything about CBM having had the land surveyed?  Or CBM having had a contour map created?  Or CBM having blueprints prepared?  

As I have indicated repeatedly, I don't know what exactly the article meant by maps with elevations.  It could have been a stick routing drawn over the top of the previously existing atlas map.  It could have been drawings on a map created by the developer in conjunction with their plans (thus the developers reference to three high areas and substantial lowland on the property.) It could have been straight line elevations like those on the blueprint, which isn't a "contour map."  It could have been rough sketches of some of the holes, with guesses at elevations.  It could have been any sort of rendering showing elevations.  It could have been about a few holes or it could have been about the whole course.   We don't know.

In short, Mike, you read things into my position that aren't there, to try and create conflicts with Scotland's Gift where none exist.  

If you have to mischaracterize my position to make your point, then perhaps your point is not worth making.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1138 on: June 03, 2015, 10:19:57 PM »
Rich Goodale,

I noticed that you started another thread, but, we're still waiting for you to tell us why you stated that the land where the clubhouse currently sits was "ungolfable" ?

Certainly, you've had enough time to gather information and support for your claim.

You made a definitive statement that the land where the clubhouse currently sits, was "ungolfable".

It's clearly some of the best land on the property, so tell us, in plain Engish or alternatively, in sarcastic tones, why you claim that the land is "ungolfable" ?

I also asked you, how many times have you played NGLA, yet you've failed to respond.

Surely, the answer to such a simple and direct question doesn't require much in the way of contemplative thought.
And it certainly shouldn't tax your memory.

You stuck your sarcastic two cents in, now pay the piper.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1139 on: June 03, 2015, 10:58:07 PM »
Sven,

That's a very good point.

In fact, if an agreement was already in place between Macdonald and the Real Estate Company by October 15, 1906 then why did he wait until December 3rd to notify those who had invested in the deal?

Mike,

What difference does the date make ?
None of the investors had a clue about golf course/hole design, so what relevance does your latest monkey wrench have to do with anything ?


He mentions that this agreement has come "after one year's study and search", and we know he tells us in Scotland's Gift when he began that search.

One year's "study" doesn't imply that the "studying" took place at NGLA, the East End of LI, elsewhere in the U.S. or abroad.
Nor does it imply that the "study" was limited to physical examination.
He could have been studying his drawings or other elements related to GCA.

And, he could have "studied" for 11 months and searched for 1 month.

You continue to interpret almost everything to fit your predetermined conclusions, rather than examine a phrase from a variety of logical perspectives.

Kinda like Bryan insisting the golfers teeing off of the current # 1 had the sun in their eyes at sunrise, until, it was pointed out that sunrise
at NGLA took place at 5:18 am ;D


We also know he signed the deal on December 14th, 1906.

CBM states that he took possession in the spring of 1907 and began development immediately.

Do you think that his investors were micro managing his efforts or had him on the clock ?

No one cared !

They knew who he was, they knew what he intended and they threw their lot and cash in with him, without having any oversight.




Bryan Izatt

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1140 on: June 04, 2015, 03:50:49 AM »
I don't remember this article being posted before from 1908.  For your fun and amusement please see the bottom of column 4
where it seems the housing (now a small bungalow) component is still on the table in 1908.  Go figure.   ;D   I hope this
doesn't lead to another thirty pages.  A lot of scrolling is required as I made the article quite large to make it readable.  
Sadly the pictures aren't very clear.






« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 03:53:09 AM by Bryan Izatt »

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1141 on: June 04, 2015, 04:06:55 AM »
On another front, I had previously asked whether the "staking" was of the course itself and not the boundaries.  I noticed in the December 15, 1906 New York Tribune article that the following paragraph was included.

Quote
A committee to lay out the course has also been appointed, as follows: C B. Macdonald. Walter J. Travis. H.J. Whigham and Devereaux Emmet.  This committee has been granted three months to stake out the course.  After that a plaster of paris model in miniature will be made. This model will be an exact reproduction of the proposed holes.

At least in this article the wording could be read to mean that they were putting stakes in the ground for tees, greens and centrelines.  This seems like a reasonable interpretation to me since the following statement says the "model" will be made after the staking.  Why would they need to stake the boundaries before building the model?

 



MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1142 on: June 04, 2015, 05:39:52 AM »
Thanks Bryan. 

I guess Macdonald bungled the bungalows while burning the brambles?  ;)

Beautiful!
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1143 on: June 04, 2015, 05:52:37 AM »
Bryan,

What is even more noteworthy than the relatively inconsequential matter of housing lots for the Founders is that here it's July of 1908 and Walter Travis is pictured out there with Macdonald and Whigham laying out the course.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1144 on: June 04, 2015, 06:04:51 AM »
Patrick,

I mostly agree with your last post.  Particularly the part about "study".   After all, he had just returned from a four-month trip abroad in mid-June 1906 with all of those drawings and photos to go through and digest and gather opinions about.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 09:07:23 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1145 on: June 04, 2015, 09:05:44 AM »
Also, I recognize I'm probably just being persnickety here but I would feel much more confident that CBM sent a contour map of Sebonac Neck to these fellows if the article said the singular "A map", or "A contour map".   The plural "Maps" makes me think they were the "to scale" hole drawings of classic holes overseas that Macdonald mentioned he was having drawn up by "draughtsmen" he hired when he returned in June 1906.  

One might think it a bit odd to send these folks maps of their own holes, but honestly, how many of the original links holes had been topographically mapped for reproduction back at that time?  

« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 09:08:52 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1146 on: June 04, 2015, 09:14:08 AM »
David,

I come in peace, with questions, if only to try to break the repetitive logjam of interpreting this and that report. Maybe it would shed some light on your position to look at it from another way, perhaps using your legal perspective of how the option would work rather than the legendary “we could configure the property to our needs” from just a golf design perspective.  If you have done this, I missed it or forgot.

I understand laws are different over time and in different states, but presume the basic principles haven’t changed much, but to explain your position to Mike in a different way, my question is this:

Most options and certainly property purchase agreements are on a specific parcel, and those documents would have a property description (metes and bounds, probably from the previous survey) and map, no?

Would it have been probable or unlikely that CBM could take an option on an undefined piece of property in November 1906, or do you think he took it on the property line we see on the blueprint? 

Would you agree that by the preliminary agreement in October, that CBM no longer had the right to use all 450 acres?  But was most likely in his final configuration, or very close, perhaps because he had to be to acquire the option? (Either strictly legally, or because the land company was smart and wasn’t going to let him go on forever selecting land)

And, could the option allow (perhaps limited) change to that specific parcel (not unlike Merion adding three acres after routing? I think the report mentioned having three months to finalize, although the final purchase was five months later (This doesn’t trouble me much, it could have been extended, or they could have left time for survey and documents) 

We don’t see anything in the reported record that shows the parcel line changes occurred in the option period, do we?  The western boundary changed, but only by sale to Sabin, if I recall. And by buying the pro shop site and 2 Acre triangle by Rt. 27, both later.

BTW, when I saw that road in front of 8 tee in yellow pencil, which seems to be an extension of what was then a stub ended Sebonac road, it made me think the option probably had other conditions limiting CBM, for the practical purpose of retaining access to now landlocked SHPB land, later the Sabin Estate.

And, if you will, what do you make of Bahto’s idea that CBM tried to buy Shinny?  Mistake on his part due to the intermingled use of the Shinnecock Hills phrase to describe the entire area?

Mike,

I agree with your general reading, especially if Bahto is right in his book, where he seems to place Raynor out there early, and especially since that says "all the undulations" and not some other thing.  That said, there is also the record that Raynor drew the contour map for the plaster model later, so we must have some doubts with conflicting information.  I am sure it was not their own holes, but a map of the property under consideration, whatever it included.

But then, presuming that seemingly bolsters David's claim that a lot more work was done early, see my post above with questions about what he needed to do legally to just get the option.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1147 on: June 04, 2015, 09:25:50 AM »
Jeff,

Our posts likely crossed but I think it's very unlikely that what CBM sent overseas to those gentlemen that was referenced in the October 15th article were contour maps of the Sebonac Neck property.  

Even if those gentlemen had played those holes many times before, how many of those holes and parts of holes and other hole concepts from the ancient links courses were actually put to paper in those days?   How many were previously drawn to scale?   Especially for discussion about reproducing them across the ocean?  

I would imagine they'd have lots to discuss related to those holes, including gaining more consensus regarding which to try and reproduce.  After all, CBM had only just returned with reams of information (i.e photos, drawings, etc.) from many courses in mid-June 1906.   There was a lot to digest and discuss.

**ADDED**  You didn't ask me directly but I also don't believe that any boundaries were defined in the Agreement to secure land signed by the parties in December 1906.   If there were, why then mention that the boundaries would be determined later?   It makes no sense, frankly and why would they go through that additional work and expense if they were going to spend the next five months determining which holes to reproduce and their distances?

I would think the agreement would simply state something general like the eastern shore of Sebonac Neck, extending from the Shinnecock Inn to the Peconic Bay, extending 2 miles long and 4 acres wide encompassing 200 of 450 acres, much as CBM described in news reports in Dec. 1915.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 10:07:44 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

DMoriarty

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1148 on: June 04, 2015, 10:22:57 AM »
Thanks for posting the article, Bryan.

As for the "bungalows," in CBM's 1912 statement he discussed having built a "bathing facilities" and that a number of founders had subscribed to two "dressing rooms" each.   Dressing rooms (dressing bungalows?) - lockers, baths, necessary conveniences - seems to match the description provided here. 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

MCirba

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Re: Was C.B. Macdonald's routing of NGLA
« Reply #1149 on: June 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM »
The exact statement is;

"There will, however, be apportioned to members the required amount of ground upon which they can build small bungalows, which can contain their lockers and baths and the necessary conveniences."

This was not some shared bath-house at this time of the planning.

It sounds like the idea to provide building lots to members went from 1.5 acre lots to smaller and smaller as the project progressed, but as of July 1908, fully two years after Macdonald's return from abroad, the idea of providing land for building lots to members was certainly not dead.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 10:48:31 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/