What's the word: The Cottonwoods on 12, 14, and 15 at Prairie Dunes are...

[Jason Thurman]

Fill in the blank: The cottonwoods on 12, 14, and 15 at Prairie Dunes are ______________

Please explain your answer.

[J_ Crisham]

Maddening on 12, Inconsequential on 14, Claustrophobic from the back tee on 15. If made king for a day,  the ones on 12 would go. The green complex is so nasty it easily defends par on its own. Amazing how many balls end up thru that green- can't think of another green at PD where that's the case . The cottonwoods on 14 can leave a hell of a mess on the green but that is about it. 15 they shouldn't affect your tee shot but...... On our last trip I saw a guy ricochet his tee ball off 2 of the cottonwoods . I'm fine with them around the tee box though.

[Terry Lavin]

They're unfortunate, in a word. They don't add anything, in my judgment, to any of the holes, unless you like those pernicious cottonwood seeds. I suppose they provide some framing, which also isn't all that helpful. A clear cut removal would be a big bonus, IMHO.

[Phil McDade]

They're unfortunate, in a word. They don't add anything, in my judgment, to any of the holes, unless you like those pernicious cottonwood seeds. I suppose they provide some framing, which also isn't all that helpful. A clear cut removal would be a big bonus, IMHO.

...says GCA's most vociferous tree-hater.

(Never played PD; have always wanted to -- I think the "touchdown" trees on that one hole look a bit excessive.)

[Terry Lavin]

They're unfortunate, in a word. They don't add anything, in my judgment, to any of the holes, unless you like those pernicious cottonwood seeds. I suppose they provide some framing, which also isn't all that helpful. A clear cut removal would be a big bonus, IMHO.

...says GCA's most vociferous tree-hater.

(Never played PD; have always wanted to -- I think the "touchdown" trees on that one hole look a bit excessive.)

I do love the smell of sawdust in the morning!  It smells like victory. I've been involved in various projects where thousands have gone to the chipper. Makes men tear up...sometimes for opposite reasons, to be sure.

[Scott Wintersteen]

On 12 - They are just plain difficult.  Pretty much always going to be on your mind with your approach shot. 

On 14 - They don't really come into play.  This is a short par 4 where a draw is an ideal play off the tee.  I did see one tee shot that was sliced badly and the trees did come into play but the majority of the time they shouldn't.

On 15 - From the tee it looks a little intimidating but it really shouldn't be a big factor.  The tee shot is a little tight but didn't see anyone really struggle with it. 

[Tom_Doak]

They are unnecessary, but they do add a dash of local character and make the course different than other "links-style" courses in the U.S.

Plus, as far as I know, Perry Maxwell and his son were okay with them being there.  I have not seen pictures of Prairie Dunes from the 1940's or 50's but I'm guessing there were cottonwoods then, instead of them being a later addition.

[Brandon Urban]

I love the trees on 12. If you hit your tee shot where you supposed to, they don't even matter on your approach. If you lay back enough, you can hit a wedge over them. Also, almost everyone on this site begs to play the ground game. Here's your chance. Playing a low, running shot under the tree limbs to that green is a blast... and if you don't execute, you'll realize there is a bunker behind the green near the gunch

I love the look of the trees around the green on 14. They aren't in play and add some local flavor to the course.

I think the shot on 15 is difficult enough without them, but they also should not come into play. But I've hit them once or twice

[Rob Curtiss]

I also love the trees on 12 - I was just there this weekend and I loved that hole.
you should have to get creative if you hit a bad tee ball on a course and rewarded if you hit it right down the middle.
I loved that whole corner  12-15 are all great holes.
The way that 14 green is tucked back in the trees is beautiful.

Can we keep a course where you need to have skill to play it.

[Jason Thurman]

Rob, you were there too?!? Apparently everyone I know from this site was at a golf course in the middle of nowhere Kansas the same time I was and I didn't see any of them. I was there for the day on Friday.

I snapped a photo of 12 tee, just like everyone else who has ever played there:



The trees on 12 are... INTIMIDATING. I hit what I thought was a perfect tee shot - a 3 wood that I smoked down the center of the fairway to 100 yards. That one lowish hanging branch from the right side shouldn't have been in play from there with my low wedge ballflight, but it got in my head and I hit the approach a little thin and over the green as a result. Are the trees necessary? No way. The hole would stand up just fine without them. But they definitely get in your head on both shots, while still being easy to play under, over, or around if you plan wisely. Aren't they exactly the type of hazard we extol the virtues of on this site? Visually intimidating, more difficult for the strong player's high ballflight and long drive than the weak player's low ballflight and short knock, with plenty of room to play around or under.

The trees on 14 are... BEAUTIFUL and make for a lovely green site. I might feel differently if I visited when the seeds were dropping, but one of the joys of Prairie Dunes is that it's so blended with its natural environment, and an unusual environment at that. It's less of a golf course in the prairie than it is a prairie with a golf course. As such, the way it moves from one piece of the property to another and melds with its landscape is one of the unique joys of the course as compared with others. Playing back into the cottonwoods at 14 is just one of the ways that the variety of landscapes is embraced by the routing.

The trees on 15 are... OBVIOUS. Imagine Prairie Dunes without a routing - you and some friends have been dropped off at the property with clubs and balls. To make things plausible, let's imagine that the native has all been bushhogged and mowed to a playable height, but there are no fairways, or greens. You're given a few flags and you get to pick your own tees and targets as you go. Wouldn't someone immediately suggest teeing off through those trees on 15 to a target tucked roughly where the current green is? I know I would.

[Rob Curtiss]

Jason, everything you said is spot on. Wish I would have known you were there - we could have met up for a round or at least a drink.
I was there both Friday and Saturday and I loved how the holes played different all 4 rounds. Wind in different direction. Foggy , kinda cold in the morning and windier and warmer in the afternoon.

Its a special place and those are some special holes . Could you cut the trees down - yes - but I would NOT..but thats me

[John Kirk]

The trees on #12 are compelling.

The trees on #14 are inconsequential.

The trees on #15 are claustrophobic.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

not going anywhere.