Challenging approaches to Par 5's ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

What par 5's present the most challenging approach shots ?

What architecturally makes these approaches challenging ?

I'm primarily referencing 3rd shots.

I'll nominate #'s 7 & 18 at NGLA and # 16 at Shinnecock and will elaborate later.

[Evan_Green]

I nominate #14 at Pebble Beach- avoiding the front bunker and placing the ball on the right part of the green... what a great shot that is.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Oh, this one is a no brainer, and hopefully the inspiration for your thread--The 7th at Friars Head. (and yes, the 7th at the National too!)

[BCrosby]

The hump on the left side of the 8th green at ANGC.

Just a simple little four foot mound. Easy to build. Easy to maintain.

But it creates a world class par 5.

Bob  

[A_Clay_Man]

One of the interesting nuances about "the third shot" is usually the movement of the land. A flat safe spot, rarely tightens one's sphincters. Holes like the 11th & 14th at Spyglass or the 18th at Poppy have both uneven terrain and a green that has significant undulation. These added variables seem to give the mind enough challenge and makes the holes "better" than without.

How about a Fazio: the fourth or fifith (?) at WWPB. The uphill all carry from 220-160 yds is not only blind of any green surface but the cut-out edge of the duneslike bunkers is just my cup o tea.

Here at Pinon the current 17th is the number one hndcp hole. Interesting how many people who could care less about gca comment about how this distinction is inaccurate. Of course their wrong because of the green and surrounds.

So isn't that what answers Pat's Q. The demands placed when the slightest miss, is usually penalized with either deep sand or a uneven awkward stance and lie in deep grass.  

[massguy]

The 10th at Taconic.  You are usually hitting PW or SW in, but in many ways that makes the approach even harder.  The green is Severely pitched back to front, and is two tiered.  You must at all costs stay below the hole, or you will 3 or possibly even 4 putt.  Front pins have obvious danger if you hit your shot beyond the hole, but back pins are even more interesting in my mind.  You have the option of going after the hole with some sort of  punch shot up the hill, trying to keep the shot on the upper tier, but Below the hole without spinning it back to the front.  Many good players play to the lower tier and take their chances trying to 2 putt from 50+ feet.  Longer players with a good drive can take a crack at the green in two but must make sure to keep the ball on the apron or below the hole, or the dreaded 3 putt par (or 4 putt bogey!) is absolutely a reality.  Really an excellent excellent par five that much of the interest is concentrated in the 3rd shot to the green.

[corey miller]

I think the great thing about #7 at FH is the fact that all three shots are deceptive distance wise which I can't recall seein to this extent anywhere else.

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat Mucci:

The sixteenth hole at Crystal Downs quickly comes to mind.

Some people think the first two shots are rather mundane. Maybe so. But, the slope of the green makes the approach shot very tricky. It's very easy to leave your aproach in the wrong place and wind up with a three putt or worse.

Number 14 at Pebble Beach always presented something similiar to me. There's not much to the first two shots, but the approach is also tricky. In this case, the green probably isn't as severe, but the blind uphill pitch can bite you.

[Jamie_Duffner]

How about the 4th at GCGC?  Tends to be an awkward lie/stance and that green is frightening if you miss the proper tier.

The 16th at Shinnecock is an interesting choice.  It plays into the wind, particularly in the afternoon and the choice of how to play some sort of knockdown and control the distance is quite a challenge.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tim- Are you saying the 14th green at PB isn't severe? I would agree it doesn't play severe when you're finally on, but finding that top shelf, or holding the bottom, can be awful tricky.

Interesting since the 14th is the only known "unfair"* spot in golf**.

* With Stimp over 9

**As decided by an esteemed panel of experienced enthusiasts on some obscure website which noone in the industry lurks.

[Tim_Weiman]

Adam,

Fair question. Really I was just comparing #16 at CD and #14 at PB. Both are very tricky, but the CD example is almost entirely the green whereas the PB case has some other elements, I think. At CD, you stand there thinking the approach should be easy and it proves not. At, PB unless you are awfully good, there doesn't seem like anything easy about the shot to either the top shelf or the bottom part of the green.

[Jim Franklin]

I'll go with the 12th at Oakmont. Bunkers in the lay up zone on the left and further on the right and then the fun starts on the green.

[Mike_Cirba]

The 14th at Sand Hills, possibly my favorite par five I've ever played.  Truly a 3 or 10 hole, without a water hazard.

The 8th at Crystal Downs

The 17th at Prairie Dunes

I must be in a Midwest mood.  

[Greg Stebbins]

#3 east and #8 west at Ridgwood CC.  Both have potential for absolute disaster lurking.  It is really important on both holes to get within wedge range.  Anything more, and disaster is much more in play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Greg,

What about # 2 center ?

[ed_getka]

I second Mike's pick of #14 at Sand Hills. It is one of my favorite par 5's too. The green is set on a diagonal from about 8'o'clock front to 2 o'clock in the back. There is a bunker on the right side of the green so coming in with a draw is not practical since the green is fairly shallow to that approach with a deep bunker behind the green on the opposite side. If you go for the green in two you need to be able to fade a ball in to the green. If you are long you are in the bunker, if you are somewhat short there is a bunker complex on the left that eats into the fairway.
   Taking the standard 3 shot approach to the hole is no push over either. If you try to lay up on the right side again there is a bunker eating into the fairway on that side (farther from the green than the one on the left). Also laying up on the right still leaves one with a poor approach angle. BUT if you try to lay up left, or go for it and are short there is a hollow (a la NGLA) that leaves you with a great angle into the green but a BLIND shot.
   Throw in a slippery green with some subtle contour on a tilted green that is probably one of the smallest on the course and you have an interesting test every time.
  And all of this is BEFORE you account for the wind!

[ChipOat]

Pine Valley #15 - as good as it gets.

Per others, NGLA #'s 7 & 18, Pebble #14.

I would choose #5 at Shinnecock over #16 - especially downwind.  Neither would come to mind instinctively, though.

Casa de Campo #2? (I think) is right up there - a small elevated green that falls off sharply all the way around.

[Jim Franklin]

#14 Sand Hills is definitely one. A guy I played with there was over in two and putted up the bunker going towards 2 o'clock and the ball rolled up and then back down in the cup for eagle. It was a very imaginative shot that everyone tried when the hole was complete and no one came close to holing it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would add # 5 at Pine Tree, a hole that can be played as far back as 610.

The difficulty in the third shot, depends on the golfers decision on the second shot.  The more the golfer gambles with spliting the fairway bunkers the shorter the shot into the green which is small, elevated, surrounded by bunkers on three sides, and predominantly into the wind.

It is a more difficult approach then the 16th hole, a 670 par 5 from all the way back, which usually plays down wind, to a large green protected in front by one bunker.

[Jim Franklin]

Patrick -

After rereading your initial post, I do not think #14 at Sand Hills really fits your description. From the back tees, I hit the green in two with a 9iron the first time I played it. If your drive carries far enough, you can get a huge roll forward from the left side of the fairway. I still think it is a great hole, but not necessarily a true 3shotter. #12 at Oakmont still fits your bill though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mr.  Hurricane,

I was referencing the third shot into par 5's, and trying to find out which par 5's are still genuine three shot'ers, and which of those par 5's provided the most challenging third shot into the green.

[Scratch_Nathan]

#10 at CC of Fairfield
#8 and #16 Blackwolf Run River
#16 Kiawah Ocean
Pedestal South Course green on #7 or 8? at Grand Cypress

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Agree with Chipoat on #15 @ PVGC.

How about #17 @ Stanwich?

KLP

[Gene Greco]

Sand Hills #1
NGLA 18
Bethpage Black #4

[Mike_Cirba]

Mr. Hurricane;

Having played Sand Hills 14th consecutive days in a crosswind, there was plenty of "third shot" left.  

Besides, if you aren't actually on that green in two, the third shot would still qualify, I believe...no matter how short the distance!