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Benjamin Litman

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1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« on: April 06, 2015, 04:38:29 PM »
Masters.com, easily the best website in all of sports, just posted these ground-level photographs from 1935 of all 18 holes at Augusta National.

http://www.masters.com/en_US/news/gallery/2015-04-06/1935_course_imagery.html

I'm not sure if these have been posted on here before; if they have, I apologize to the many of you who have spent so much time assembling and posting archival images of Augusta. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes.

For ready viewing, I'm copying the images here:

No. 1


No.2


No.3


No.4


No.5


No.6


No.7


No.8


No.9


No.10


No.11


No.12


No.13


No.14


No.15


No.16


No.17


No.18


"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Connor Dougherty

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2015, 04:43:23 PM »
Thanks for putting these up Ben! I don't think I can add much more than what has already been said, but pictures of the 9th, 10th, and 12th have captivated my imagination for a long time. Playing the 1935 version of the course in today's video game still captures my imagination.
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Patrick_Mucci

Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 04:57:18 PM »
Ben,

Fabulous photos

Thanks

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 05:09:23 PM »
It's really incredible how much has changed throughout the course since the 1930s ... one thing that jumped out at me looking at this series of photos quickly: Notice how steep the fairway coming into #11 green is.
jeffmingay.com

Benjamin Litman

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 05:17:45 PM »
While we're at it, here's a Joe Passov piece of ANGC's influence on other golf-course designs:

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/masters-2015-6-great-courses-influenced-augusta-national
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Jon Cavalier

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 05:29:30 PM »
Awesome stuff.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 05:40:38 PM »
Great pix, but my first impression is that we should stop clamoring for the return of the course to its original design.....it seems like most of the changes are improvements, even if you want to believe the recent narrowing is a problem.  ANGC is really a poster child for how to improve a golf course and generally stay with the designers intent while correcting deficiencies.

Not only the crazy shape greens, but many of Mac's vaunted bunkers are really laid flat on the ground, rather than artfully dug in.  They don't exhibit the real artwork of Mac bunkering we expect from either other courses or subsequent evolvement of his bunkers.  The ones at 6 and 18 green are great, but look at those bunkers on 1 and 2 green!  The bunker on the first doesn't even come close to fitting its mounding.......The bunker sitting 10 feet above the old 10th green made little sense, and I can see why that green had its drainage problems and had to be relocated.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Benjamin Litman

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 05:43:50 PM »
What I really want to know is the identity of the man holding the flagstick in almost every one of the photos. Any guesses?
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Chuck Glowacki

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2015, 05:50:00 PM »
Is it Mucci?

Jim Nugent

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2015, 05:58:20 PM »
Jeff, the bunker on #1 is one of several that didn't come into play much for real good golfers.  What is your objection to the bunker on #2?  Also, did you mean the bunker 10 feet above 16 (I don't see such a bunker on 10)?  Those bunkers on 16 look mostly decorative to me, especially since the shot to the green was a short iron.

 

Rick Shefchik

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2015, 06:20:35 PM »
#4 green is one of the oddest shapes I've ever seen - almost a perfect "L." I wonder if Bobby and Cliff allowed members to hit wedges from the front left part of that green to the back right.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

David_Elvins

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2015, 06:32:30 PM »
Great pix, but my first impression is that we should stop clamoring for the return of the course to its original design.....it seems like most of the changes are improvements, even if you want to believe the recent narrowing is a problem.  ANGC is really a poster child for how to improve a golf course and generally stay with the designers intent while correcting deficiencies.

I agree, well said.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2015, 06:48:56 PM »
Great pix, but my first impression is that we should stop clamoring for the return of the course to its original design.....it seems like most of the changes are improvements, even if you want to believe the recent narrowing is a problem.  ANGC is really a poster child for how to improve a golf course and generally stay with the designers intent while correcting deficiencies.

I agree, well said.


The designers intent has been lost.  The game has changed and the course has been altered to adapt to those changes.  Mac and Bobby designed a course for the 1930's, not for the modern game.

That alone is reason to study how the course has been altered.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Garland Bayley

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2015, 07:20:54 PM »
... .....it seems like most of the changes are improvements,...

Or, maybe you've just become accustomed to their face. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2015, 08:13:51 PM »
Sven and GJ,

I have seen all the old photos of ANGC before and have the book chronicling the changes.  In short, those very narrow green tongues never struck me as good design.  They don't look natural, and would have to be even a harder target to hit with older clubs.

What about those green shapes do you think is good?  What about the modifications do you think made the course worse, on a purely functional basis?  I love Mac as much as the next guy, but I never liked those freak green shapes, for more than maybe one example per course or nine, and this place was littered with them.

You will note that the long narrow green on 8 for instance, has survived in concept, as has 12 (where the original back bunker is perched very awkwardly up the slope and the front bunker appears to be flood prone) and a few others.  Again, where the concepts stood the test of time in tournaments, they stayed (although Cliff Roberts did build a terrible version of 8 before it went back to its original intent, but rebuilt)  Where they proved faulty, they were modified.

While we can all question several individual choices over the years, and bemoan the perfect conditioning for other reasons, overall, I think it ended up where it needed to be.  The original course had some flaws, and I don't think restoring to original design intent would be a good idea there.

As always, just MHO, but we are here to discuss golf course architecture.....and when I see those photos, but hear "original intent" it reminds me of the old Groucho Marx lline...."Who are you gonna believe?  Me, or your own eyes?"
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Garland Bayley

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2015, 08:20:14 PM »
I looked at 8 and said to myself, "Self, you saw that at Pennard last fall." Pretty cool. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Gary Sato

Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2015, 08:30:42 PM »
Great pix, but my first impression is that we should stop clamoring for the return of the course to its original design.....it seems like most of the changes are improvements, even if you want to believe the recent narrowing is a problem.  ANGC is really a poster child for how to improve a golf course and generally stay with the designers intent while correcting deficiencies.

I agree, well said.

Disagree completely.

On almost every hole, the classic Mackenzie bunkers are better looking then the bland white blobs they now have.  The old green shapes are fascinating and would have more pin options and play much more interesting. 

Example, #4.





Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2015, 08:35:20 PM »
Jeff:

I don't think you got the gist of what I was saying in my last post.

And as much as I enjoy being lumped into a response with our resident contrarian (or at least one of them), in general I understand the changes made to the course.  There are certain holes and features that I find fascinating from the old design, but I can appreciate that many of those old versions wouldn't be viable for today's game.

There are certain things that don't work anymore, and many of the original ground game features are some of those.  If there's a shame to me, its that the game of golf in general has moved away from that style.

Sven

PS - that little tongue of green was a repeat of other Mac holes, the 15th at Cypress being one example.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Garland Bayley

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2015, 08:42:14 PM »
Jeff,

I am on record here as being opposed to the ponds added and the creek damming at Augusta National. When you say the things done are where it needed to go, I object. The widening of waterways on golf courses only serves the sticks.

Maybe they have Florida envy at ANGC. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brian Freeman

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2015, 08:48:02 PM »
Fascinating stuff. Sent this to quite a few people earlier.

Gene Greco

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 08:49:35 PM »
What I really want to know is the identity of the man holding the flagstick in almost every one of the photos. Any guesses?

Brian Williams

"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Garland Bayley

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2015, 09:03:02 PM »
What I really want to know is the identity of the man holding the flagstick in almost every one of the photos. Any guesses?

Brian Williams



Not only was it Bill O'Rielly, but he saved Clifford Roberts from having to pay Dr. MacKenzie.
;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Peter Pallotta

Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2015, 10:43:33 PM »
What struck me was that the design approach so clearly presupposed (and was meant to test) the ability to work and to flight the ball -- at least if top golfers wanted birdies. By JN's time in the early and mid 60s, his coming into those greens with shorter irons, and more importantly his ability to hit every iron so *high*  must've changed everything. Btw, Gene Sarazen was one who didnt think the original very good, and at least according to his own recollections many years later, started urging changes on Mr Roberts right away.

Tim_Weiman

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Re: 1935 Pictures of All 18 at Augusta National
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2015, 02:10:46 AM »
Would much prefer to play the old version.
Tim Weiman

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