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Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tracking changes
« on: April 01, 2015, 10:21:04 AM »
I don't know if many here remember me. I used to hang out here. I've been busy the last few years.
I'm finishing up a masters in public history. My thesis is using historic preservation tools to preserve golden age architecture golf courses.

It is going fairly well and I'm just about done with the first draft.

I have a question for course superintendents. Do you use a database to track changes to the course? Is there a standard database tool, or is just something that has always been used on the course?

Any help will be greatly appreciated and properly cited.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
This crowd has gone deadly silent, a Cinderella story outta nowhere. Former greenskeeper and now about to become the masters champion.
 --Carl Spackler
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Peter Pallotta

Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 12:35:14 PM »
No superintendent here, Dan, just a humble participant who fondly remembers your unique and valuable perspective on the game and its fields of play. Glad to read that you are doing well and are hard at your books -- a pleasure/way of life that too many (so-called) grown-ups forget about by their early 20s.

Best
Peter
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 12:37:26 PM »
Dan King quoted me once.  He's the best.
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Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 02:05:55 PM »
I love going to school, but fun is soon coming to an end. I figure five degrees are enough and it is time to end my retirement. Not sure what I'll do, but if anyone is looking for someone with a unique perspective ...

I am going to start on my diet book after I finish my thesis. So far 120 pounds since Thanksgiving Day 2012.

I've not paid much attention to the golf world. I've been using some of my quotes, needing to go and find where I got them to properly cite the quotes (Thank Jesus for Google.) Also my library has come in handy. My bibliography is long, mostly from my own library.

Cheers,
Dan
Quote
One of the reasons why I, 'a medical man' decided to give up medicine was a firm conviction of the extraordinary influence on health of pleasurable excitement, especially when combined with fresh air and exercise. How frequently have I, with great difficulty, persuaded patients who were never off my doorsteps to take up golf, and how rarely, if ever I have seen them in my consulting room again.
 --Alister MacKenzie
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MCirba

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 02:51:39 PM »
Great to see you here, Dan!
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"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Rich Goodale

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 03:34:38 PM »
Hi Dan

If I were you I'd take a trip down to Pasa and ask them what they're doing these days.  When I visited them in 2006 (with an early "tracking changes"system ) they were ahead of the curve, using LIDAR to archive and measure changes of time of micro undulations (<2.5 mm) on their greens.

All the best

Rich

PS--you should be selling your diet book in Colorado and Washington....

rfg
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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

RJ_Daley

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 10:15:27 PM »
Quote
I am going to start on my diet book after I finish my thesis. So far 120 pounds since Thanksgiving Day 2012.

Is this a typo?  While I couldn't pass the test to be that guy who guesses the weight of folks at the circus, I can't imagine I have ever seen you at more than 220#!   Even if you ballooned up to 240 after I last saw you.... 120#s less would be prison camp svelte.  :-\ 

I wish I could help you on your historical survey tracking GC changes and encouraging golden age preservation, but I ain't old enough!    ;) ;D

Seriously, other than architectural topo depicted drawings on a 1-100 or so scale, and historical aerials, taken of golden age courses after some were already decades old and aerial photos became a thing, what sort of data could have been collected?  Maybe pesticide purchase and application rates of specifically known areas incidental records of a succession of Superintendents over the years might give some area sq footage or acreage estimates that have a discernible variant.  But, data like we think of with computer aided precision...?  I can't think of an example of such a data resource.  Good luck.
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 10:21:14 AM »
Dan:

The courses which have been mapping their greens for the longest time include Augusta National, Winged Foot [they had topo maps of the greens in the '74 US Open program], and Royal Melbourne [done by the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology].

Unfortunately, in all these cases, the maps have been used to make alterations in those greens, though we did try to use the old map of #6 East green at Royal Melbourne as a tool to help restore it in its new location.

The more I look at old greens, I'm convinced that I can see that they change, quite predictably, over time, due to sand topdressing and superintendents tweaking the topdressing to deal with difficult areas.

Trees are another area of interest.  Only a few clubs I've worked with have documented the trees they planted.  At Chicago Golf Club, the superintendent in the 1970's and 80's was meticulous in noting wherever he planted trees ... when they gave me the list, they thought I was kidding when I handed it back to them and said, "There's your list of what to take out!"
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Dan King

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 02:04:48 PM »
Perhaps my question was poorly worded.

Is there a software package that is in general use for tracking changes to a golf course?

Since I asked I've talked to a few superintendents. It appears Excel seems to be the common tool. It was a small sample, but I'll just go with that for the purposes of the thesis.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
Of all of our inventions for mass communication, pictures still speak the most universally understood language.
 --Walt Disney
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James Bennett

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Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 07:30:03 PM »
Dan

great to hear you are busy finding new challenges.


Tom Doak

can you comment further on the issues that old greens (typically) develop as a result of top dressing and superintendent tweaking of top dressing?

Do the greens (generally) lose some micro-movement, and do they generally become more elevated?

One issue that I see occasionally is where greens get significant maintenence/top dressing but the surrounds don't (not a good idea in my opinion).  Apart from having a firm green with a soft surround, you can also get a green elevated from its surround, losing any tie-in that used to exist.

James B
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Tracking changes
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2015, 07:57:08 PM »
Quote from: James Bennett on April 02, 2015, 07:30:03 PM

can you comment further on the issues that old greens (typically) develop as a result of top dressing and superintendent tweaking of top dressing?

Do the greens (generally) lose some micro-movement, and do they generally become more elevated?

One issue that I see occasionally is where greens get significant maintenence/top dressing but the surrounds don't (not a good idea in my opinion).  Apart from having a firm green with a soft surround, you can also get a green elevated from its surround, losing any tie-in that used to exist.

James B

James:

Yes and yes.
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