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BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2015, 10:27:33 PM »
One of the main reasons I got into Twitter was to read the comments of the super at my former club. I've found his thoughts, and those of others who I follow, to be both informative and interesting.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 10:29:50 PM »
One of the saddest things about this situation is that many members think because a super works 80 hours a week already he has plenty of time to hold their hand along the way. I've know quite a few supers over the years and to a man they all loved their families. Every hour they spend holding your hand is one less they have with their family. I'll never condone catering to some whine ass golfer if it takes away from the time a good man may spend with his child. In the same light I will not condone a super padding his resume when he could be out manicuring my play space. Replace the WiFi with the What For.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2015, 10:47:59 PM »
One of the main reasons I got into Twitter was to read the comments of the super at my former club. I've found his thoughts, and those of others who I follow, to be both informative and interesting.

That's odd, I just deleted my Twitter account because of people like you.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2015, 10:54:08 PM »
One of the main reasons I got into Twitter was to read the comments of the super at my former club. I've found his thoughts, and those of others who I follow, to be both informative and interesting.

That's odd, I just deleted my Twitter account because of people like you.

That's surprising. I would have thought you'd love the trolling opportunities available on Twitter. It's our loss, no doubt.

Better refill your glass...

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2015, 11:11:52 PM »
JK makes some good points.  The supt job is the hardest job in golf and often under appreciated but it is a job that lends itself to such issues as JK mentions .   All entities have positions that provide various services to the client, customer or member.  When one takes a position at a club he usually knows what is required and who is the spokesperson for the entity.  It used to be the supt was fine with the golf professional doing so.    The GCSAA is the problem.  A good golf pro knows the value of his supt and will go out of his way to cover his butt and not leave him open tot he crackpots.  I appreciate the blogs and there are some very good ones but I would wager they can hurt a supt as much as help if the wrong guy decides to use them against one.   IMHO the GCSAA acts as though they should continue to elevate supt out of a job instead of helping him keep the job he has.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 11:14:19 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2015, 11:27:51 PM »
. . .

PS-  It was 36 degs today in Ann Arbor and our range was open.  We have mats on the very back of the range, I thought most courses did.    

Ben, regarding the blog in question, the super's wording was "when will I open the driving range tee?"  Just FYI, as a point of clarification, the course in question does have mats at the back of the range for use during winter months.  Members of the club in question know the super is talking about getting them off the mats and onto the grass.  No different from your club.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 11:30:07 PM by Carl Johnson »

BCowan

Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2015, 11:32:52 PM »
Carl,

   thanks.  To a more positive note, I appreciate Roger sharing info about ur club.  Not many do and I think that more improvement could be made in golf in general if more did.  

Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2015, 11:37:40 PM »
Carl,

   thanks.  To a more positive note, I appreciate Roger sharing info about ur club.  Not many do and I think that more improvement could be made in golf in general if more did.  

So, then, wouldn't superintendents posting information on blogs be a good thing?  I follow many on Twitter as well and find the information helpful and interesting.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

BCowan

Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2015, 11:47:34 PM »
Brian,

   There are many turf seminars members can attend if they like.  The internet is a great tool.  One can read papers from college turf professors.  If the keeper wants to write on twitter great, but I wonder if it will be expected now by board members.  I fear for too much micromanaging in the future.   

Brent Hutto

Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2015, 06:39:14 AM »
I know it's just my own geeky preferences but if I were a member of a club whose superintendent kept up such a detailed blog that would definitely add something to my enjoyment and appreciation of the golf course. The one that Roger posted is really excellent. As a member I would never *expect* that level of information on an ongoing basis but it sure is a nice bonus.

At the same time in the back of my mind there would be a concern as to the amount of time an already busy professional must have to spend to keep a blog like that up to date and supplied with photos. One can only assume he really enjoys doing the blog because if not it's hard to believe he would invest that time on an ongoing basis just to gain brownie points with some portion of the membership who are into that kind of thing.

I don't work remotely as hard at my job as a typical golf course superintendent. But in my own work, when people bring me projects to consult on I do enjoy taking a little extra time to explain how I went about some of the more geeky details. Some colleagues really appreciate learning about the underlying process and that's good but mostly I just like sharing what I know. I'm guessing the superintendent at Carolina GC simply likes to share his knowledge, not that he intends it as some sort of kissing-up exercise to a few complaining busybodies.

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2015, 08:17:43 AM »
I am a member of a club that constantly gives you explanations of what is going on via email. I think it is great, and is one of the things I love about the club.
Many here are arguing that a Greenkeeper does not have the time to keep up such a blog, send updates. My question is how much time do you really think that they will spend in this a day? Twitter is 140 characters, simple email don't take long either. I suspect that many people spend more time on GCA every day than it would take a Greenkeeper to send a simple email, are you still able to complete a work day?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2015, 08:29:34 AM »
No one is arguing against email updates. I'm looking forward to mine this morning concerning frost delays and cart path only status. I just don't need pictures, logarithms and Venn diagrams explaining why.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2015, 08:46:36 AM »
Below is the email I recieved this morning. It is a great way to start the day. It's a team effort.

Today’s Information
 
 
Welcome to the 2015 golf season at Victoria National. This “Course Conditions” email will be sent daily to inform you of cart rules, opening times, course conditions, weather, & other special events happening around Victoria National. If you wish to not receive this email please reply to opt out.
 
Thank you, & and we look forward to a great season together!
 
 
 
***Carts OFF Paths with the exception of Par 3’s Today***   
 
***Practice Facility open from 10:00am to 30 minutes before dusk***
 
***Golf Course will open at 10:30am***
 
-Floating bridges on #6 & #12 are closed due to repairs, tees will be placed accordingly.
 
-Cart path on #10 closed for renovation & repairs
 
Weather – Hi 57   Wind – SE 5-10mph
 

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2015, 10:28:28 AM »
I'm going to break my own rule and respond to John... 

John, try to imagine that there is a significant percentage of every golf club membership that actually would like to know a little bit about what a superintendent does to produce the golfing conditions that members enjoy.

Why do they punch holes in the greens early in the seaon? Late in the season? What do they fill the holes with? Why can't the greens be opened as soon as the snow melts? Since we have an expensive irrigation system, why are there guys watering by hand?  And many other topics that intelligent, inquisitive people might like to learn about.

Bill,

Thank you for a fair and balanced response. I think you would agree that any registered member of this site would know the answers to your questions. It has been my contention from day one that the sad truth of the matter is that your average civilian golfer is no stupider than we. I simply do not associate with anyone who has so little faith in a professional of the caliber that works where I play that they do not have faith in why the what is done. We simply need to know only when so we can arrange a game at another available club.

As a member of a club that didn't aerify greens for several years because a few board members didn't like the process, I do not share your level of faith.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2015, 12:39:31 PM »
One of the most enlightening conversations I ever had was with a Priest about the fine people who volunteer at the church. I had mentioned my regret for not helping out and mentioned how grateful he must be for those who do. He promptly told me to please stay home because he has all the help he needs and over 90% of his free time is spent herding these sheep who think they are there to help. I'm sure an experienced Super feels much the same way about the good people who serve on committees.  

Personally, I think it is the job of the Grounds Chair to communicate with the membership, not necessarily the Superintendent. The Chair should be be able to get all the info he needs from the Super, let the Super check it, and then send an email blast. No big deal.

And John, with all due respect, I'm just not that interested in how roads are built or maintained. I want them to work well and be pothole free; that's about the extent of my interest. But I spend a ton of my leisure time on the golf course, and THAT maintenance interests me.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 12:42:08 PM by Bill Brightly »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2015, 04:59:52 PM »
John K:

Overall, I probably agree with the sentiment you expressed. Back when Sand Ridge was being developed I got to know John Zimmers who is now at Oakmont. John is one of the best in the business. However, I don't recall he spent much time talking with members or that many members had such an interest.
Tim Weiman

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2015, 10:33:19 PM »
I have a little bit of experience in this area, not from the superintendents' side but from the Green Chairmen perspective.  I have served as a Green Chair , Club Pres. or assistant Chair for 20 years and serve on our regional associations committee on turf.  As such I am familiar with the communications between supers and members throughout the Chicago area and I communicate with others.  The blog in question is well done but it by no means unusual.  Similarly the practices noted are also good but reasonably well known.

The question is, how much good do they do and are relations with members improved?  My experience suggests that their utility is marginal at best.  First, one must recognize that most memberships have varying degrees of interest regarding the mechanics of greenskeeping.  There are a few enthusiasts like some of us who are interested in the "hows and whys".  But most members are closer to Barney, all they want to know is if the course is open and whether carts will be permitted.  Moreover, if the answer is the "wrong one", unless the course is underwater, they will complain.  Similarly, when greens conditions are less than ideal due to required procedures such as aeration and verticutting, they will complain about he timing, not for any rational reason but simply because they are playing that day.

So does the blog protect the super because the members are on notice?  Maybe a little bit, you would be surprised by how many members, when confronted with the written notice, state that they don't have the time to read the notices or that the communications are too technical.  Some even suggest that the blogs are disingenuous attempts to excuse the performance of the super.  This occurs even at clubs where the super is highly regarded.  But just as every golfer is an amateur architect, even the fellow whose lawn is wall to wall crab grass deems himself an expert on course conditioning and is quick to criticize the super.

Of course I am overstating the case.  There are usually only a few who regularly criticize the super although in tough times the volume increases.  What is the solution?  I think communication that doesn't take too much time is a good idea.  But the best antidote is a strong, well informed green committee.  If there is a problem a super is at an inherent disadvantage because he is an employee.  Hence he is limited in what he can say to a member.  But a well informed member can try to educate others and can confront habitual complainers/abusers.  One must be willing to confront some bad actors if one wants the greens chairman's job, but you can do a lot of good and if it is done well, one can help the course and the fellow with the most important and least appreciated job at a club, the super.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2015, 09:04:38 AM »



I'm not on Twitter, but now that Kavanaugh has opined , might have to rethink !

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2015, 03:39:00 PM »
What I get out of this discussion . . . (1)  Most of us believe that getting out information about course maintenance is a good thing, but it's not clear that all of us do (I haven't counted).  This is true even if only a small percentage of members are interested.  Even if members don't read the information, regardless of how it's distributed, those who do often pass the information on to those who don't; not in a systematic way, but informally like a lot of club information is shared.  (2)  There are different ways of getting that information out.  What works well at one club may not work at some other clubs, and the other way around.   So, let's say you belong to a club where the green committee is invisible to the membership and relies on the superintendent, as part of his or her job, to get out that information to the membership.  That's one model, but clearly not the only one, and I don't think anyone is saying that it is.  Clubs, their boards and their committees, and management operate in different ways.  If it works for club, great.

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2015, 05:02:35 PM »
Being a Superintendent I'll throw out my perspective.  What I hear is that the membership wants to know what's going on, and the membership should know what's going on.  So, I go through an array of ways to inform the membership of projects, cultural practices, etc...  We use email blasts, Grounds Committee members (at least the ones that are willing to take the information from meetings to members), and I do a blog as well.  As for sitting in my office writing these items, it's always done at the end of day or when it's feasible.  If I can be outside and need to be outside, that's where I'm at.  We have to budget our time adequately, as one stated to make time for the course as well as our family.  And, as important as the golf course is family doesn't come second. 
Anyway, for the longest time I would only send out emails and explain what was taking place, comments I would get back were; I don't care, too long of an email, and great information keep it coming.  Different audiences with different needs.  That's how I got to the blog.  I do continue to send out emails but leave the technical and long winded explanations, I put those in the blog.  I will remind the members at the end of the email that more technical and detail information is placed in the blog.  I feel this has made some headway, allowing and getting those that just want a quick read to read but, also those that want the detailed information the ability to access it.  And be able to access it whenever they want.  Recently instead of writing a long winded item for our monthly newsletter I'll put a link to the blog and let them know a variety of items are place there for their reading pleasure.
Communication is key but as we know not all will care or read it.  A situation in past has shown me how important communication is and will continue to be.  We had a situation arise and members we stating that they were never informed of what was going on.  So, my Chairman and I went through all old emails sent to the membership as well as committee and compiled a binder full of material (informational emails, reference articles, etc.) that showed dates and times when all was sent out.  Got those that were claiming nothing was sent out to idle down pretty quick. 
Everyone goes about it in a different way, but I as the Superintendent am only the care taker of their club.  My responsibility is to protect their asset and give them the conditions they desire.  And along the way I feel it's my duty to communicate how it's being done, whether or not they read it or not.  If anything it gives me a pretty good chronological database for projects, cultural practices, etc... as to when they were done and how they were done. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2015, 05:41:41 PM »
All things new start with a measure of innocence and humility. Sadly, few new services in the golf industry remain that way for long. I see a competition brewing on the horizon amongsts clubs for best superintendent blog. It is already an internal struggle used for personal recognition between supers, caddies and consultants to consulting architects.  At least my super doesn't have a podcast....yet.

Note: I have read every word my club has ever distributed. Not always for the right reasons. I love judging people by what they write.


Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2015, 07:43:45 PM »
Being a Superintendent I'll throw out my perspective.  What I hear is that the membership . . . .

Justin, thanks for your perspective.  From mine, as a club member, I'd agree 100 percent.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2015, 08:36:41 PM »
I'm certainly willing to go rake a few bunkers if I can get my Super to take over member communications ;) ::) ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Gosselin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2015, 02:58:29 PM »
How does a superintendent having a blog, for all the world to see, benefit the membership over just having a section of the website for course maintenance issues?
Great golf course architects, like great poets, are born, note made.
Meditations of a Peripatetic Golfer 1922

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Proud of my Membership/Superintendent Relationship...
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2015, 04:37:05 PM »
How does a superintendent having a blog, for all the world to see, benefit the membership over just having a section of the website for course maintenance issues?

John,

Multiple ways to access.  Regarding the blog in question that started this thing off, it is a section of the website -- that is, if you go to the club website you can click on the superintendent's blog and learn what's being said.  Independently, the superintendent sends out an e-mail to the members when the blog has been updated (which does not happen of a fixed schedule).  There's a link in his e-mail that takes you directly to the blog, also.  I'm not sophisticated in the ways of the web, but it seems to me that in many cases there are multiple ways to access the same information, which is the case here.  You can go directly to the club website, or you can go directly to the blog when you wish, or you can wait to get an e-mail telling you the blog has been updated, and click on the link there.  At one point the super in question stopped sending the e-mail notices of updates, but I think the membership prefers that approach rather that just having to go to the website everyday to see if there's been an update.  I know I do.  So, bottom line for me is that running it through a blog works -- not sure what the downsides of this approach are, however.  Is a bad thing to have the blog that others, others than club members, can look at to see what the super says?  Personally I don't think so, but maybe I'm naive.  Is a blog more likely to be subject to "attacks" by bad guys?  Regardless, he's still just typing in information, so the time element wouldn't seem to matter.  Personally, I'm not a blogger.  (I think our super also sends out tweets, or whatever, but I've not figured out how tweeting works so I don't get info that way.)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 04:41:51 PM by Carl Johnson »

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