Football Teams vs. Golf Architects

[Patrick_Mucci]

[Tommy_Naccarato]

"No one, but no one comes into our house and pushes us around--Dan Devine
1959-196219631964-present

[JakaB]

I am so sorry my faith waivered...If only we knew how Huck was dancing before the dance was over...it had to get ugly at the end...go ND.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

But its OK, Tom went to the Notre Dame of the West, and judging how USC played against BYU, you are correct, He was dancing way too soon.

[THuckaby2]

Thomas:

I'm glad to see you have your allegiances correct, althought calling my beloved SCU the Notre Dame of the west is about the biggest insult you could have given.  

I believe both of our football teams performed more poorly than we had hoped, btw.  But, a win is a win for both and those rankings still don't matter much after #4.  Enjoy getting thumped by Mr. Wigler's school this week.

BTW, my job is pretty damn hard to explain... I'd say I am way closer to PR than accounting and I would have never said I have anything to do with the latter - I work WITH the bean-counters regarding preparation of our financial statements and the like, but good lord I am more of an alligator wrestler than I am an accountant....

I do corporate secretary function for Clorox - part of IR, reports to Legal.

TH

[David Wigler]

I think both of you have made a good case for Michigan to equal Raynor...Michican has a fine history of classic efforts but currently lacks the tools to challenge the modern game.

The perfect weekend (Even though I shot an 82 Saturday Morning).

Ohio State takes a beating by the national press and barely squeaks out a win.

Shivas Alma Matter loses to the Wisconsin School of Girls training to be Nun's (Or something like that).

Michigan State manages to choke away a game that the fans had already left couting as a win

Michigan crushes its 3rd most bitter rival and makes a statement on the national stage.

LIFE IS SWEET!

[THuckaby2]

I for one get little joy in kicking men while they are down.

BUT... let's just say that all the Domers here have a little 'splainin' to do.  

It was an enjoyable Saturday afternoon of TV viewing most definitely.

And funny, as I watched all this unfold, the thought occurred to me "this is damn near Wigler's perfect football weekend"... the only thing that kept it from perfection was the near miss at the Horseshoe.

TH

[David Wigler]

Give me a break Tom.  I find it difficult to believe you root for Michigan.  I always root for the other Big Ten Schools (Penn State, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota).  Northwestern used to be in the "Always root for" list until Shivas.  As for OSU and MSU, frankly it is more fun to enjoy their problems, than cheer for them.

[THuckaby2]

Obviously you directed that at Tom MacWood - not me - correct?

But just to be certain:  hell yes I root for Michigan, for at least one week per year.  That week just ended.  My new favorite team is Michigan State!  

GO SPARTANS!

TH

[Mike Hendren]

Wait a minute!  Do I understand that Michigan and Notre Dame played each other this past week?  Oh yea, now I remember.  I chose instead to watch two fainting goats fight over a turnip - infinitely more interesting

Huck, with apology, give up on the volleyball.  If it can be played on the beach, it ain't a legitimate sport.  Also, soccer is a communist pastime.

As to JakaB's original subject,  my beloved Vols are like Rees Jones - both look better on paper.

Regards,

Mike

[THuckaby2]

Mike:

Just please do realize my alma mater is pretty darn tiny - D-I in all sports, but forced to give up football awhile back because we were D-II in that and NCAA rules changes disallowed that.  So in conversations with the big boys, well... we take our victories where we can and in the grand scheme of things, to me it's very cool that our tiny school can compete at the national level in ANYTHING.  But oh yes, would that it were hoops or something more respectable...

Thus when it comes to football, since my alma mater doesn't have such, I revert to my childhood team - USC.  My Dad went there and I grew up going to many games... still do when life realities permit.

So life is pretty good football-wise right now also...  

BTW, you do realize where you got your current QB?  

TH

[Mike Hendren]

BTW, you do realize where you got your current QB?  

I know exactly where he came from.  We'll be happy to send him back.

Regards,

Mike

[David Wigler]

Huckster,

Of course I meant MacWood.  As for you new favorite, MSU, it cannot work.  You are far to cheerful and positive to root for the Spartan's.  Their fans are a cynical bunch always waiting for the other foot to fall (Except in basketball, where they kick ass).  Unfortunately for them, it usually does.  This weekends loss defied logic.  

Shivas,

I used to love Northwestern.  It was only your challenge to my Wolverines that raised my ire.  After your quote "I guess I'm a big pussy because my pathetic Cats got blown off the field by a joke MAC team" I will revert to rooting for the Cats and only enjoying the suffering of OSU and MSU.

BTW - OSU sweaks by the California Costal College of Surfers and Recreational Pot Smokers and needs overtime to beat the North Carolina School of Overweight Engineers in Training and the coaches poll still rates them above Michigan?  At least the AP got it right and had UofM jump the Buckeyes.

[THuckaby2]

DW:  Hell, if Folsom Prison State U. plays MSU's next opponent, for me it would be GO FOLSOM!  

MH:  aw come on, not happy with ole Casey?  And here I was thinking you finally got a decent non-Manning QB...  

TH

[David Wigler]

All I did was point out that little ol' NU has done it just as often as criminal sanctuaries OSU and Michigan recently.  

Be careful, ye of recently moved into a glass house.  UofM and OSU both may have had a criminal or two but also both manage to win.  The Cats have been involved in two major indictments (Point Shaving and Death) while remaining mediocre.  

[THuckaby2]

Shivas definitely got the second to last round, but I gotta say Wigler gets this last round as a 10-8.  "point shaving and death" had me laughing out loud, LOUDLY.  

So hmmm...what round are we in?  shivas, you're gonna need to go for the knockout.

TH

[David Wigler]

For every one Rumeal Robinson or Fab 5 you have, OSU has 4 or 5 Katzenmoyers).  

Shivas,

I am going to drop this after this post because it really is more fun to beat up on OSU than Northwestern, but why Rumeal Robinson?  I went to school with him.  He came in as a Prop 48 kid (Therefore, could not play as a Freshman - along with Terry Mills).  Robinson works his tail off in school and developed into a solid leader on the court.  He clearly was not a Rhodes Scholar and did not have a very successful professional career but from the several times we hung out (I lived with four football players and met a lot of the athletes) he seemed like a class kid and someone who UofM certainly does not need to apologize for.  The funniest Rumeal story I have is from his freshman year.  Rumeal and Terry Mills could not play for Michigan so they were on an IM team together.  In the final game of the IM championship, their team was beaten by a Freddy and the Seven Dwarfs.  Freddy Hunter (Who later walked onto UofM) and seven short white kids from his dorm).  In the first round, I had to guard Rumeal.  He was kind to not score 200 on me.

[David Wigler]

Shivas,

You meant Maurice Taylor - Now I get your point!

[HamiltonBHearst]

The student-athletes at Notre Dame are some of the finest people in college athletics.  I believe it is innapropriate to comment on Tony Rice's academics.  If a young man can gain admittance to ND and can stick it out regardless of where he started he will be better for it.

We also have a man with unmatched integrity running our football program.  I do not believe it is a "badge of honor" to have had a point shaving scandel.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hammy, Now I know for sure you AREN'T Pat Mucci. Pat, I'm sorry I doubted you! Please forgive!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

Hammy, what you say is true about a guy who starts out as a Prop 48 and guts it through for a degree.  HOWEVER, ND perpetuated a myth that it only admitted top student/athletes, and that it would not take guys with "iffy" academic histories under any circumstances.  Let's not forget exactly how LOW the Prop 48 standard is!  Frankly, it's PATHETIC!  It's about 6th grade level.  Yet, ND took plently of them.  

You can't have it both ways.  Either ND is a school with high academics where smart kids get challenged to excel, making it a worthy and desireable degree for the best and brightest.  OR... it's so damn easy a Prop 48 kid with 6th grade academic skills when he gets there can graduate!  It's one or the other.      

Since you begged for a reply, I'll provide one.

You state that ND took plenty of Prop 48 players.
Could you name them ?

Secondly, there is a conflict in your theory.

How is ND able to have amongst the highest graduation rates in the nation for their scholarship athletes if they are taking in students with the equivalent of 6th grade academic skills ?

92 % of ND's scholarship athletes in the 1996-1997 class graduated, compared to 87 % for Northwestern.
If you would care to look up other Universities, you can compare their statistics as well.

Are you saying that the NCAA statistics show that ND's 6th graders are smarter than Northwesterns 6th graders ?  
And, that ND graduates more of their student athletes, including the 6th graders they let in ?

This would seem to indicate that the 6th graders that ND admits, are smarter then the high school seniors other Universities admit, including Northwestern  

Something is wrong with your statement.
Perhaps your facts are wrong ?
Perhaps your premise is wrong ?
Perhaps both are wrong ?

Having been in 6th grade, for three years I might add ,
and having entered Notre Dame as a Chemistry Major, and understanding that student/athletes on scholarship were in some of the same classes that I was in, how can you state with certainty that you possess the knowledge to accurately asssess ND's academic entry policies and academic requirements for its student athletes ?

I see the color green  

[David Wigler]

92 % of ND's scholarship athletes in the 1996-1997 class graduated, compared to 87 % for Northwestern.
If you would care to look up other Universities, you can compare their statistics as well.

Pat - That is having fun with Statistics.  I am sure that Notre Dame graduated 100% of its scholarship Sychronized Swimmers.  I am equally sure that they did not use Prop 48 to get a Sychronized Swimmer.  Notre Dame is like every other major college in that it gets revenue from only two sports (Football and Men's basketball).  The only graduation rates that matter are in those two sports.  That written, like Shivas's Northwestern and my Michigan, I would guess that Notre Dame's graduation rate in Football is higher than the graduation rate for the general population of students but it is not in the 90th percentile.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Shivas- I do not mean to get into a contest of bashing two fine schools but if you think every recruit had a chance without athletics you are smoking something.  What do you think the avg sat score for the football-basketball is relative to student population?  

I also believe that these athletes skills and committment do deserve special advantage in the admissions process.  I also believe if an admissions pro at ND or Northwestern makes individual determinations as to the liklihoood that these people can perform in the classroom and graduate what's the problem?  They will all be better people for it.

[THuckaby2]

Michigan 38, Notre Dame 0.

Those on the short end of scores like this are always the first ones to start the talk about graduation rates.  Funny how little they care about that if and when the score is reversed.

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

ND cannot say that.  ND has never been able to say that.  That's the difference.

That's simply not true. You've gone to extremes, if not the absurd, in both your premises and your conclusions.
Your wild accusations lack facts and substance.

Where was ND in the stat's you looked at.

Tom Huckaby,

Perhaps you've missed the many posts I've made from two years ago to current date, when I discussed graduation rates and reiterated my suggestion that college schlolarships only be replenished through the graduation of the current class of scholarship athletes, on a four or five year plan.  
Irrespective of ND's won/loss record over the years,
my position on this issue has remained rock steady.

Had The University of Santa Clara been able to provide you with reading comprehension skills you would have seen my support for graduating scholarship athletes and the citing of the NCAA graduation statistics long before ND played Michigan

Perhaps you have a wrongful education case against them ?

Tom MacWood,

Could you present the facts surrounding the recruiting of scholarship athletes during the era of Ara ?

Could you document the swings you allude to ?